POA Meeting 5-15-19
The Hot Springs Village Property Owners’ Association (HSVPOA) Meeting on May 15, 2019 was chaotic. Upon arriving, it was noted that the back door to the meeting room was locked. This door is the closest door to the handicapped parking. Handicapped people were forced to walk out of their way in order to enter the building. We were told by personnel that the order from management was to keep the door locked from the outside.
The full board of directors (Cindi Erickson, Chairperson, Tormey Campagna, Vice Chairperson, Diana Podawiltz, Dick Garrison, Nancy Luehring, Buddy Dixon and Mike Medica) were present as were regular management attendees. There was a sizable crowd in the audience.
Due to a lot going on, the audio recording of the meeting is not complete and the first few minutes are missing. I apologize for this.
This is what transpired at the beginning of the meeting: The meeting was called to order. The pledge of allegiance was said and then the prayer was said by Luehring.
Erickson asked if there were any guests in attendance. A lady from the back, a Villager, asked if that meant she was a guest and said she and several others with her wanted to make comments. Erickson explained that guests meant “dignitaries” and explains when the appropriate time would be for her to make comments.
Podawiltz made a motion to amend the Agenda by adding Finance Committee discussion in New Business to follow number 12 in New Business and this motion to be voted on by roll call. The motion was voted on by roll call with a tie vote. Podawiltz, Garrison and Campagna voted in favor with the other 3 voting against. Erickson broke the tie with a no.
This is where the audio begins:
Erickson said, “Please review the rules of decorum for proceedings. Thank you.”
HSVPOA Board Meeting Decorum Rules
Board-Meeting-DecorumErickson: “A vote on the original motion then. A call for vote on the original motion. Those in favor say yes. Those opposed? (4 yes and 2 abstentions from Podawiltz and Garrison. Abstentions are recorded as a no.)
Erickson: “The order of business as it currently stands on the agenda remains. At this point I’d like to call for a motion to accept the consent agenda which includes” (copied from agenda and not quoted from Erickson):
7. Consent Agenda a. Ratify 04-17-19 Regular Meeting Minutes; 04-17-19, 05-07-19 Executive Sessions (legal/personnel matters); b. Standing Committee Minutes – ACC 04-18-19; Administrative Fines Appeals 03-20-19; Audit 03-13- 19; Golf 4-19-19; GAC 04-5-19; Governance 04-16-19; Lakes 04-10-19; Public Services 04-18-19; Recreation 04-08-19; Trails 03-22-19 c. Re-appointment of Committee Chairs- Larry Griffin, Administrative Fines Appeals; John Froning, ACC; Rhonda Haynes, Golf; Murray Claassen, Public Services; Donna Aylward, Recreation d. Appointment of Ralph Turpin to the Golf Committee e. Appointment of Bob Cunningham to the Public Services Committee f. Appointment of Laura Allworth to Ad Hoc 50th Anniversary Committee g. Appointment of Jeanette Sherman and Deanne Tolliver to Ad Hoc Community History Committee
Erickson: “May I have such a motion? (Motion and second)
Erickson: “Is there anybody that wants to move these items from the consent agenda into new or current business?”
Erickson: “So all in favor of the consent agenda as it stands raise your right hand.”
“Aye”
Erickson: “Motion carries.”
Erickson: “Okay, at this point I would like to call for questions and comments from the audience concerning the agenda items. So, it’s very limited topics. We’ll be talking about agenda items 9, 10, 11 and 12. Before we do, I want to point out a couple of things. In order for the community to better understand how the community can engage the board in these meetings, we’re using a reference called ‘Jurassic Parliament’, which is a company that provides resources to help run effective and fair meetings in the public sector. They have a publication called, “Guidelines for Public Comment in Local Government” and it’s from those guidelines that we have drawn this ‘Meeting Protocol and Rules of Decorum’, which we’re using as a pilot, as a practice at this point to see if it works for you as our community and see if it works for us as a board and we’ll adjust them as it makes sense to do so. This is kind of an experiment, so to speak. But we’ll operate under these meeting protocols today and see how it goes. At this point, now is the time to hear from our public. We welcome your comments, which are very important to us. Note that all comments are limited to 3 minutes, which is an expansion from last year, which was 2.”
Guidelines for Public Comment in Local Government (Jurassic Parliament)
Roberts-Rules-Guidelines-for-Public-CommentErickson: “As a reminder, please go to the podium to comment. It is helpful for the board if you will give us your name and address. Please address your remarks to the chair. Note that we will not be entering into dialogue at this time. The purpose of this agenda item is for you, the public, to inform us, the board, about your views. If members of the public have actual questions, staff will be glad to address them. Please speak to the Executive Assistant, which is Ella, sitting far to my left and she’ll be able to help you get answers to any staff questions. So (indecipherable). Three minutes and we’re going to allow about 10 minutes in the agenda for this agenda item.”
Kirk Denger: “Madam Chairwoman, if I may, I would like to comment upon the minutes of the last board meeting, April 17, 2019. It was touted as an annual board member meeting. However, the annual board meetings, must notify all members 30 days in advance of the meeting. Since this was not done, then the meeting does not qualify as a members’ meeting.
“Hot Springs Village POA Bylaws, Article 14 states that Robert’s Rules of Order shall govern in all cases. The purpose of Robert’s Rules of Order is to ensure that majority rules and to protect the right of the minority, in order to ensure democracy and end the aristocracy that is ruling Hot Springs Village POA.
“The incomplete minutes that you have just ratified among other grievous errors does not even mention the members’ names who commented at the appropriate times in the minutes, let alone the gross representations of what was stated in their comments. The COO’s report that was accepted without discussion or a vote, including building a wooden bridge at the DeSoto Recreation area under Grounds Maintenance. It does not mention that a 48-year-old landmark arched stone bridge was demolished connecting the DeSoto Clubhouse Pool and the DeSoto Family Recreation Park, designed by Fay Jones, with a value of $100,000. With every grand historic tree severely and permanently damaged by the POA backhoe driver. How much did the Pickleball Tournament cost us? How many lots were sold as a result?
“According to parliamentary procedure, I defer my remaining speaking time to Brian Darst.”
Erickson: “Brian would you like to come up for 22 seconds?” (Pause) “Plus the 3 minutes that you would like to speak.”
Darst: “If I may, I am having a little bit of an issue today. So may I have a chair to be able to sit down to speak?”
(A chair is brought to Darst)
Darst: “Thank you very much.”
Darst: “My name is Brian Darst. I am a property owner of Hot Springs Village. According to parliamentary procedure, this meeting is not a public meeting. This is a closed meeting because this meeting is open to the property owners’ association, members in good standing. Those that are here that are not part or are not members in good standing need to leave now.
“Secondly, if the police are here and they are property owners, they are allowed to stay as property owners. They are not allowed to stay as police.
“Secondly (sic), any decorum or such as that, according to parliamentary procedure is handled by a Sergeant of Arms. You do not have one.
“Another thing, the members that are sitting at the table, according to parliamentary procedure that are not ex-officio members shall not be sitting at that table.” This is not Robert’s Rules of Order. This is parliamentary procedure.
“Parliamentary procedure also states that once the floor is relinquished to a speaker, that speaker is allowed to speak until that speaker relinquishes the floor back to the chair. So I am NOT limited to three minutes.
“Thirdly (sic), as of the ratifying of those minutes, there is no ratification for the meeting that took place after the regular meeting last time, the special meeting, including the three new board members on the board in their oath. According to parliamentary procedure, because those three were placed during that session. They are allowed to make motions at that session. And I do believe they were going to make a motion to immediately have another, to put that meeting on suspension and to have another special meeting, make the agenda and address it. That was not allowed. That is against parliamentary procedure.
“Also, locking that back door and not allowing people to enter is a discrimination against a protected class. I am a protected class. I am a veteran. I am disabled. I am native American and I am a property owner. That should never be locked. That is against fire code.
“Now, there needs to be an understanding. Ms. Nalley and Ms. Mathis are corporate secretary and corporate treasurer according to your agenda. The secretary for the Board is Ms. Scotty. She is allowed to sit at this table. Ms. Scotty takes the minutes and she types them up. Not Ms. Nalley. Ms. Nalley must be sitting over there. Ms. Mathis must be sitting over there.”
(Timer beeping, signifying 3 minutes, 22 seconds was up)
Erickson: “Mr. Darst”
Darst: “But also, because they are corporate board members, they cannot…”
Darst: “Wrong answer. I did not relinquish this table to the board.”
Erickson: “Mr. Darst, until we can evaluate the comments that you have made, I’m going to stick with meeting protocol (indecipherable).”
Darst: “No, that is wrong. Parliamentary procedure rules. It has been stated in other, at last meeting and ‘Let’s Talk’. Robert’s Rules of Order are guidelines. That we are proceeding by parliamentary procedure, which means your fiduciary responsibility…”
Erickson: “Mr. Darst, I am asking you politely…”
Darst: “Your fiduciary responsibility is to federal, state, local bylaws, declaration, articles of the corporation…”
Erickson: “Mr. Darst…”
Darst: “general policy and protective covenants. Again, you are discriminating against a protected class, my first amendment rights. If you wish to proceed, if you wish to proceed, I will bring a civil action against yourself, against Ms. Luehring, against Mr. Dixon, and Ms. Nalley for violation of my civil rights. I have a right to speak.”
Darst: “I am not leaving. You cannot escort me from this building. You are not property owners. There is no Sergeant of Arms.”
(The officer said he was a property owner)
Darst: “You are here as a property owner then, not as a police officer.”
Erickson: (indecipherable)
Darst: “Nope.”
(Someone mentions adjourning the meeting)
Erickson: “Is that what you would like? For me to adjourn the meeting right now? That is my option. I am entitled.”
Darst: “Before you do that I request that a membership meeting of the property owners for 10 days prior to my meeting. And we are allowed to do that because of the bylaws..”
Erickson: “All right.” (Gavel pounds)
Darst: “And she has nothing to say.”
Erickson: “We stand adjourned.”
Darst: “Nope. You’re not adjourned. There was not a motion. There was no second. No vote. You are not adjourned.”
(Clapping in the audience)
Luehring: “I move to adjourn this meeting.”
Dixon: “I second.”
Erickson: “All those in favor.”
Board: “Aye”
Audience heard saying, “No”
(Clapping in audience)
Erickson: “It’s a shame.”
Darst: “No, it is not a shame. It’s a shame with you because you, because you are not following parliamentary procedures.”
Audience: “You have really taken over Tom’s place.”
“Ridiculous”
“Get a backbone”
“No transparency”
(Various other comments from the audience continued)
Erickson: “I didn’t want this.”
(Audience continues talking)
Medica: “Okay, we have heard enough. We have heard enough.”
Karen Lundberg: “You are not going to scream at me.”
(The audience continues talking amongst themselves and a number of people stayed after the adjournment to continue their conversation)
HSVPOA Board Meeting (Audio Only – Missing first few minutes
HSVPOA Board Meeting 5-15-19 short video clip recorded near end of meeting
Steve Rust
05/16/2019 — 10:30 am
I’m don’t know Roberts Rules of Order so I’m not going to comment on that until I study more, but I’m am familiar with governance docs and Mr. Sarah was incorrect in stating he has a right to call a members meeting. Governance says the chair, vice chair, two officers, two directors or 1/4 of members in good standing can request a members meeting.
Kirk Denger
05/17/2019 — 11:36 pm
Good research Steve, Brian requested the Chairwoman to send notice to all property owner members ASAP, as the Chairwoman has the authority to call a member’s meeting. Notifying each member by mail 30 days in advance of such meeting, for the members to evaluate the performance of each Board member and decide which should stay and which shall go. Decide which Board members are deemed not worthy of their office, and who will be their replacements. The April meeting was called a “Member’s Meeting” but notice was not made to all Members according to bylaws and therefore does not qualify as a Members Meeting.
Andy Kramek
05/16/2019 — 10:48 am
Unfortunately, while I can understand the frustration and sympathize with it, I do feel that this whole thing was counter-productive and is not going to change anyone’s mind on anything. It is clear that the Board will continue to do things the way that they want. It is also clear that a number of people (maybe even a significant number!) disagree with the way that things are being done.
My greatest fear is that as a result of this “disruption” as it was termed, Board Meetings are going to be closed and we will have even less idea what is going on than we do now.
As long as the Board continues to act in this non-responsive manner, and as long as people continue to challenge them publicly, things are not going to change. Positions will only become more entrenched on either side.
I wish I had a solution but I fear that I do not because any solution has to be initiated by the BoD. Change can only come from there and I see no signs that they are willing to do anything to either appoint a non-board member as parliamentarian, or to curb Ms Nalley’s increasingly obvious overreach of her devolved authorities.
Kirk Denger
05/17/2019 — 11:47 pm
Two board members can put the CEO on administrative leave, with or without pay because of the CEO’s overreach of her contract. The Members can initiate a Member’s Meeting, as Brian formally requested the Chairwoman to do, 30 days prior to 10 days before the July regular meeting, as is her fiduciary duty to the Members in order to accomplish an evaluation of the Board members performance.
Anonymous
05/16/2019 — 1:06 pm
A member can request to the board a member meeting annually or in our case possibly quarterly given size of membership by board resolution or special member meeting via chair vice chair or two board or staff members or if need be fourth of membership in writing. Article XIII sec 1 and sec 2. It is allowed to request such a member meeting, but the decision will be by either the above 2 sections of the bylaws.
Also at anytime the membership themselves can organize a meeting of their own absent the board here in village such as at beach or pavilion on common ground. Such as with “We The People” did. This a right under civil rights not HSV rights.
bernard mcintyre
05/16/2019 — 5:36 pm
It is apparent the members of the Board, prior to the last election are just as virulent and combative as they had previously been. Medica is case in point. Luhlering is another. I noted none of the NEW members voiced any issues with the proceedings and I surmise they were still unsure of their positions, lack confidence. Ms. Erickson needs to better understand her job and to also attempt to get the new members and the old members to work together, at least until we can have another election. At this forthcoming election, we will see the dinosaurs removed for they are truly part of the problem, as was Weiss, and is Ms. Nally. Nally must be removed as CEO and we MUST return to a ‘General Manager’ title who is under governance of the BOARD, not vise versa.
Think about it my friends, did we have such strife prior to Nally coming aboard? No, we did not.
Anonymous
05/17/2019 — 8:18 pm
5-16-101. Crime of video voyeurism.
HSVP C
05/17/2019 — 8:54 pm
No, you are wrong. No video voyeurism here. This was not a private area and there was no expectation of privacy. Also, the meeting was being filmed, so there would be no expectation of privacy by anyone. This was openly filmed, no secret device or secret observing. You do not scare us. In fact, you sound quite silly.
(a) It is unlawful to use any camera, videotape, photo-optical, photoelectric, or any other image recording device for the purpose of secretly observing, viewing, photographing, filming, or videotaping a person present in a residence, place of business, school, or other structure, or any room or particular location within that structure, if that person:
(1) Is in a private area out of public view;
(2) Has a reasonable expectation of privacy; and
(3) Has not consented to the observation.
Anonymous
05/17/2019 — 10:58 pm
(b) It is unlawful to knowingly use an unmanned vehicle or aircraft, a camcorder, a motion picture camera, a photographic camera of any type, or other equipment that is concealed, flown in a manner to escape detection, or disguised to secretly or surreptitiously videotape, film, photograph, record, or view by electronic means a person:
(1) For the purpose of viewing any portion of the person’s body that is covered with clothing and for which the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy;
(2) Without the knowledge or consent of the person being videotaped, filmed, photographed, recorded, or viewed by electronic means; and
(3) Under circumstances in which the person being videotaped, filmed, photographed, recorded, or viewed by electronic means has a reasonable expectation of privacy.
(c)(1) A violation of subsection (a) of this section is a Class D felony.
(2)(A) A violation of subsection (b) of this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
(B) However, a violation of subsection (b) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(i) The person who created the video recording, film, or photo obtained as described in subsection (b) of this section distributed or transmitted it to another person; or
(ii) The person who created the video recording, film, or photo obtained as described in subsection (b) of this section posted it in a format accessible by another person via the internet.
Kirk Denger
05/18/2019 — 12:07 am
Nope, nope and nope. none of the above, Nonomous. All audio and video possessed by any entity may be subpoenaed if necessary. It will be interesting to see if the BOD/CEO will suppress the truth as they have with the let’s talk at the April 2019 Granada meeting about facts on the no bids on the pool contract, conflict of interest.
Anonymous
05/18/2019 — 8:32 am
Lol, copy and paste anonymous is simply making a fool out of itself. This website reports news, events, and property owner opinions and makes it available to concerned citizens. In addition, the board meetings and other HSV meetings are recorded and presented to the public. How are the views on Lake Coronado?
Karen Lundberg
05/19/2019 — 7:37 pm
If “Anonymous” is correct in his posting, which he is not, then why must he/she hide by the name of Anonymous? These meetings, along with many other meetings have been being recorded for quite some time, with no objection from anyone. In fact, they have been met with much gratitude for the seniors and people who work during the day to be able to view the meetings without having to be there.
Much research has been done by the people who do these videos for the convenience of the Village, and they are always very cautious to stay within the lines of the law.
In the future, if you have something worthwhile to say, possibly you could use your own name. A person posting a post quoting the law under the name of Anonymous is nothing but a Coward!!!