By Dennis Simpson, March 8, 2020
Too much in taxes?
As a child, my parents reminded me often that “What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.” It took me a while to learn what a Gander was, but the moral of the story was that if it applied to one, it applies to all.
Welcome to the Garland and Saline County Real Estate Tax system. I am pretty sure they are not aware of the Goose and Gander rule.
Exhibit A: Saline Co. Parcel Number: 001-13265-000
- Owner: Cooper Communities (I am NOT picking on them, this is just an exceptional example.)
- This 30.98-acre tract is listed as “commercial” by a local real estate company for Cooper. This property runs along Desoto to the west after you enter the east gates.
- Tax Status: Paid
- Tax Category: TIMBER (really?)
- Total Tax: $50.06 per year
- Assessed Value: $4,950
- Sales Listing Price: (approximately) $609,850
At this point, you might think I am picking on Cooper. Not a chance.
You see, I’m confident as soon as this property sells, Cooper WILL deed it and zone it as commercial. That’s what you get to do when you are the “Developer.” That is Cooper’s right. I do not begrudge CCI that.
The simple fact is the POA (you and I) pay taxes for the green space (common property) that Cooper set aside and deeded to the POA to make this place the gem it is today…again…great ideas…great design. We pay the property taxes on the green space as assessed by Saline and Garland Counties; These green spaces are also classified as timber.
Inconsistency in property tax assessments
I own several golf course lots (FOR SALE!) on Balboa Golf Course. Some of them are co-owned with a business partner.
Whatever you think of the clubhouse and area, It IS a stunning Golf Course with LOTS of room and great views.
My business partner and I own lots that are assessed (in Garland County) for $17,500 when the most recent sales were listed as $8,000.
Add to that, there have been only five or six sales (based on how you define a sale – between relatives, etc.) in the past decade.
My business partner and I have petitioned the Garland County Tax Equalization Board three times in the past three years. Each time we received only 11% reduction (or less) in assessed values while the Board admitted (in a court of law) that they did not have adequate numbers to support these assessments. The Equalization Board even went so far as to state that “if we changed yours (by state law), we’d have to change everyone’s.” DUH! That’s the point.
Meanwhile, in Saline County, they seem to have no problem at all in assessing golf course lots on Balboa at $8,000 all day long.
Are POA lots assessed correctly?
In conclusion, the POA has some 3,400 lots in inventory. Some if not all of these lots must CERTAINLY be “incorrectly” assessed.
We as a POA and as members and individuals should request that the POA go with us and protest our assessments EN MASSE to force them to fairly assess the entire Village. Mr. Frank Leeming has NUMEROUS times pointed out that the Village is a cash windfall to BOTH counties.
The only services received from tax dollars are for public schools
There are LITERALLY NO! SERVICES rendered from Saline and Garland County to the Village other than to educate the children. (Comparatively speaking, the Village has only 1/6th the number of children versus the national average.) To wit, the POA PAYS the salaries for our police who then, in turn, go outside the gates (FOR FREE) and assist the county authorities, but that is another post.
Lowering assessed values
I am sure there are those reading this that will argue that lowering the property tax assessments will decrease our property values.
Saying this is akin to saying that “I didn’t have cancer until the doctor told me I did.” In this example, you DID HAVE cancer, but you were unaware. IF your home/property has lost (or gained) value but has not been correctly reassessed, you are simply uninformed. It doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
I suggest that we adopt the Goose/Gander philosophy and let the chips fall where they may.
IF Garland or Saline Counties need more funding, so be it, but let’s do it under an accurate and fair property tax assessment in the clear light of day. I’d be surprised if accurate re-evaluations of property values didn’t result in the POA saving thousands of dollars in taxes each year.
By Dennis Simpson, March 8, 2020
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Dennis’ Biography: A native Arkansasan from Bryant, Dennis is an IT Tech, security manager for the State of Arkansas, Vice President of HSV Technology Club, host of HSV Events TV show (Village Venues) and radio personality. He and his wife Diana, a CPA, are both Arkies and have lived in HSV for the last nine years.
Dennis has bought and sold over 250 properties in HSV over the last 20 years and he and Diana currently run three Airbnb’s and own or co-own 52 properties in HSV. They enjoy attending estate sales, participating in Boomers Rock events and hiking the trails in and around HSV with their pups. You can reach Dennis at Dennis@totaltech-ar.com.
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Robert Busse
03/08/2020 — 3:12 pm
Dennis, great message. We have lived here for 17 years and had family living here since 1985. I have always wondered WHY we got nothing back from the two counties except schools. I don’t mind paying for the education of children today, although I have already paid plenty elsewhere in the state for mine. I sure wish their education today was what it was 75 or more years ago. But, Fountain Lake is rolling in money, and I haven’t heard Jessieville crying for help either.
But it is a real travesty and totally unfair that HSV pours so much money into Garland and Saline County and gets zilch in return. What would happen if we refused to pay anything over and above the school taxes. They can’t take anything away from us cause we get nothing from them.
I know we have brought this up to our local and state officials many times before with no relief, but could we not press harder and do more than occasionally question this robbery?
John Sowers
03/08/2020 — 7:38 pm
Could you give us the details on how Fountain Lake school is rolling in the money?
Robert Busse
03/10/2020 — 10:26 am
Sowers, If you are as informed, knowledgeable, savvy as you claim to be, there is information available that indicates that the Fountain Lake School District is one of the most well funded districts in the state. You can find it. Others have. Again, thank you for being such a contrarian as it sets you apart from most others in a very negative way.
If voters felt that Fountain Lake was in need of revenue, it is my opinion, that they would have passed the recent millage request. Maybe you were unaware of that, but I think not.
Kirk Denger
03/09/2020 — 6:46 pm
Quit paying Busse and see what happens. Foreclosure on your property?
Karen Daigle Lundberg
03/09/2020 — 9:36 pm
Kirk is right, Robert Busse. He speaks from experience.
Robert Busse
03/10/2020 — 10:44 am
Kirk, Karen and others, My comment about stopping paying County taxes was made tongue in cheek and facetiously. I certainly was not advocating that action, but using it to illustrate that stronger, more serious opposition might be taken to get some relief from this obvious injustice. Not being familiar with legal means and governmental maneuvering, I do not have any suggestions as to what course or actions to take. I apologize for not making my point more understandable and clear. (Probably should have kept quite!).
Karen Daigle Lundberg
03/12/2020 — 4:37 pm
Robert Busse, please do not apologize. I understood what you were saying was tongue in cheek. I always enjoy reading what you post, and I definitely got your point. You said nothing wrong. I apologize to you because I took advantage of your post to make a point to Kirk about not paying taxes. Please do not stop posting. Your posts are always very interesting.
HSV Property Owner
03/08/2020 — 6:06 pm
At the very least we (HSV property owners) should be exempt from paying tax for police and fire protection.
HSV resident
03/08/2020 — 6:07 pm
At the very least we (HSV property owners) should be exempt from paying tax for police and fire protection.
John Sowers
03/08/2020 — 7:36 pm
Well what have you done about this Dennis?
Suggest you and Frank and Jerry and Bob and Lloyd and Dick and
Tucker, and Peter go see our local representative and get his excuses and vote him out of office.
Kirk Denger
03/08/2020 — 7:56 pm
Dennis, should we show up en mass to protest Saline county’s lower property assessments on the same golf course, if that is indeed the case? As an investor hoping to sell at a profit, a higher property assessment would seem to be beneficial to that end. It is the POA assessments that are twenty times higher than county assessments that we should be all showing up en mass to protest for a fairer assessment structure. As far as paying county taxes and not receiving anything in return? After we leave our PRIVATE ESTATE of the Village what roads are we driving on? Our county taxes maintain them, along with safety services and a multitude of other services to our benefit. If we are to remain PRIVATE we must pay for our own maintenance of our properties.
Karen Daigle Lundberg
03/09/2020 — 11:52 am
Kirk, do you even put any thought into what you post before you write it? All we ever hear from you is that people in the Village should pay the amount of assessments according to the value of their property. Yet here you are saying that it is okay for the county to charge taxes that are imbalanced between counties. Have you not yet figured out that the “assessments” we pay for HSV are NOT taxes? You make no sense, Kirk. It is scary to think you actually may get a Board seat.
Kirk Denger
03/09/2020 — 4:05 pm
Lundberg, I have compassion for your sunny disposition which has a way of rubbing off on those around you.
Karen Daigle Lundberg
03/09/2020 — 9:17 pm
Kirk Denger, must I remind you that you are running a campaign for a position on our Board. Instead of arguing facts, you have chosen to sling mud at many people who actually were planning on voting for you. You are welcome to sling mud my way as much as you would like. I know what you have said are lies, and I also know that every time you do so, it costs you votes. So keep it up, Kirk. You are doing a very good job of killing any chances you have of getting on the Board.
Kirk Denger
03/09/2020 — 10:05 pm
Lundberg, I try not to argue with idiots. How many votes of Property Owner opinion do you think you are getting?
Moe
03/09/2020 — 4:08 pm
I am scared if this guy makes it to the board. Whatever will we do? According to his “logic” a rich person should pay more for a loaf of bread than a poor person.
Good luck with that – maybe this guy would be happier in Cuba.
Kirk Denger
03/09/2020 — 10:09 pm
Moe, someday you might wake up to the world you are living in.
Karen Daigle Lundberg
03/09/2020 — 10:40 pm
Kirk Denger, the world I am living in right here in HSV, you are the one asking people to vote for you, and I am not. I am not running for Board of Director, Kirk, you are. It is also not just me you are slinging mud at. In case you don’t know this, the way to win an election is to state your intentions to improve the Village, but you spend so much time calling people names, like “idiots,” that you are killing your own campaign. You rant and rage at people and tell them not to vote for you. Not the way to win an election, Kirk. Maybe you should check Amazon and see if there is a “Running a Campaign for Dummies” book. You certainly could use it.
Kirk Denger
03/10/2020 — 8:48 am
1 loaf or 10 loaves, same price, HSV assessments.
Agolfer1949@yahoo.com
03/09/2020 — 6:19 am
Dennis. Put your contact # here. I’ll buy a Balboa $8,000 golf lot.
Nancy Burleson
03/09/2020 — 6:54 am
You are on solid ground regarding assessments for unimproved golf course lots if recent sales support your contention for review and adjustment. I would venture to say that some view lots may be over assessed as well for the same reason. Years ago they sold for a very high price tag, but not so much today. If/when there is a county wide assessment (which happens when one county’s assessments get way out of line with statewide comparisons, or periodically, whichever comes first), there is a team of appraisers working on adjustments. This would be a good time to petition that all such lots are looked at and adjusted. If you want to do this sooner, you are correct, the assessor doesn’t want to open that “can of worms”. But I think if you could furnish the Garland County assessor with a detailed report of all the unimproved golf course lots that exist today and their assessed values, plus sale prices over the past several years – and the data for Saline County lots – you would have a good case for reappraisal… which you could take to the State Equalization Board if you were refused.
Margaret Danish
03/11/2020 — 12:44 pm
Nancy B. – If you already hold office somewhere, please let me know. If not, please throw your hat in the ring – you’ve got my vote. Your “here’s how you fix that problem” analysis was a thing of beauty.
Tom Blakeman
03/09/2020 — 7:57 am
Appraisal districts and the laws which bureaucrats and politicians have put in place to support them are very complex. They typically use “mass appraisal” techniques to value properties. The only way to have a chance fighting them is to have a licensed appraiser evaluate the property using actual comparable sales. The problem here is that appraisals don’t come cheap, probably more in cost than an owner might gain in tax reduction for many years. Even with an appraisal you still have to battle with the district and all their laws and rules designed to maintain the tax dollar flow.
The bigger issue here is the political one. Both counties have been reaping the benefits of Hot Springs Village for decades without any payback. There have been extensive studies done every two years for at least 20 years about the huge economic benefit HSV provides to the whole metro area not to mention the state. Yet while everyone claps and takes victory laps about how much we contribute no one seems to be doing anything to fix the disparity or get some recapture.
There was another article just published on this forum about a county judge speaking before our GAC. There was talk about the sales tax and how the revival of an expiring portion of it was so sorely needed so we can have some county road maintenance, expansions, etc. There was mention of expansion of highways 5 and 7 to better connect HSV with Hot Springs and Benton. But there was NO MENTION of how these highways should have been expanded decades ago or of all those hundreds of millions of dollars HSV generates every year that we never see a penny of coming back.
The fact is that until the population rises up and starts calling all these elected officials, appraisal bureaucrats and others on the carpet and demanding recapture of our funds – nothing will change. The sadder fact is that HSV will never grow or realize its full potential until these issues are resolved. Meanwhile, HSV will continue to struggle and suffer and try to figure out how to extract more “funding” from its own property owners to pay for things our county property and sales tax dollars should be paying.
Kirk Denger
03/09/2020 — 4:13 pm
Tom, if that is what the Property Owners want, just donate the roads to the county. Then we will not own them or be a private community any longer. Put it to a vote so that we will not have to hear your complaints about payback any longer.
Craig
03/10/2020 — 10:36 am
We already are not a “private community” due to the horribly lax gate situation.
We are a long, long way from being private when anyone can come in for any reason and tailgate in and leave with ease and nothing will be done by the “police”.
It is not what we want….it is what we have due to incompetence and willful malfeasance.
Robert Busse
03/10/2020 — 11:09 am
Great input Karen L., Moe, Nancy B., Tom B., and Craig!! It is your intelligent, mature, civil, non-derogatory, conversation that can lead to possible new ideas and actions. These folks that like to frequently throw darts or put people and ideas down make it difficult and are a deterrence to the progress most are seeking.
Kirk Denger
03/10/2020 — 8:19 pm
Busse, you got me pinned but before I tap-out, let me replay this thread from the very beginning. 1. You suggested that we not pay our taxes. My “derogatory” reply questioned your unlawful suggestion. Then I was immediately the object of the dart which you call “good input”. 2. My opinion of the 1 to 1/2 assessment disparity between counties being trivial compared to the 20 to 1 disparity of POA assessments is non-intelligent, non-mature and non-civil and could not lead to possible new ideas and actions. For that, I receive more “good input” (certainly not trying to put me down?) which I try to compliment anyway. 3. Then comes the mud-slinging (fact check who first uses that language) notice your opinion of “good input” language, “lies”, “killing”. Maybe I should not defend myself and turn the other cheek—AGAIN. I appreciate you recanting your “tongue in cheek” statement TWO DAYS LATER.
Julie
03/11/2020 — 5:03 am
You might be happier just leaving this site.
Robert Busse
03/10/2020 — 10:41 pm
Mr Denger, I am not sure where or what you are reading from or referring to. My information indicates that the second entry after you mentioned my not paying taxes and being subject to foreclosure, (3/9, 6:46pm), I made my explanation of that comment, and apologized for being unclear. (3/10, 10:44). That is less than 24 hours later. But in that statement I see nothing even remotely close to calling your remark “derogatory” or any reference to a dart about “good input”. Going on further, there was absolutely no negative reference or inferred reference to your comments about assessment disparities. And finally, I see no comments of mine of any “mud slinging”, “lies”, “killing” or other verbiage for which you accuse me of. You claim all this came from me “immediately” after my apology. I made one other comment a day later that was rather short and also did not contained all the comments and opinions you are now addressing me with.
With this posting I will forget about this discussion, unless you find it necessary to make further false claims and acquisitions and hope this thread does not do irreparable damage to your Director’s campaign, as I felt that of the two remaining after LTD you could beat out Ms. Choyce.
Kirk Denger
03/11/2020 — 9:17 am
The damage is to the Village as a whole. I am campaigning to prevent this by highlighting mis and dis-information.
Willy W
03/11/2020 — 12:58 pm
OMG! The reality of Kirk actually becoming a BOD member is scaring the crap out me! We can only hope that if he actually does become a BOD member that the other 4 competent and qualified BOD members will stifle his half-baked thoughts about assessments, property taxes and other issues that he has no clue about.
I never thought I’d say this but, we may be better off with Nikki Choyce for one-year than Kirk for one day! YIKES! Lloyd, Tucker, Dick, Diane – please gather up together and lay down a plan to neutralize this wackadoodle should he become a BOD member.
Kirk Denger
03/11/2020 — 6:17 pm
Is that Willy Wonka that got out of the chocolate factory?