2/5/22 by Peter Kirk Denger
“$2.5 million dollar contract between Securitas and HSV POA and the integrity of the Compliance Division are in question after Securitas Manager’s falsified report disputes HSVPD Deputy Sheriff’s Report.
“Securitas Manager Jacqualyn Polley blatantly lied no less than nine times on her report of 1/26/22 and follow up emails, that she asked Peter Kirk Denger for Identification other than his POA card, disputing the HSVPD Report. Charles Brown repeated the lies to HSV GM John Paul no less than seven times in his Memo. The evidence of the falsification is a clear cell phone video captured by a passenger in Kirk Denger’s vehicle. The video can be viewed on you-tube at Hotspringsvillagepeople.com/ West Gate Incidents HSV. All documentation and real-time videos are available for Property Owner and attorney scrutiny.
“Securitas gate guards, under direct orders from Charles Brown through approval of the POA GM and BODs, instituted yet another restriction to impair HSV Property Owner’s right to ingress their property. For the last three weeks before these incidents at the manned gates, the Compliance Division is ordering Property Owners to give up their cards; handled by gloveless and mask-less guards, in order to go to their property, backing up traffic and further impairing access to their property. The incident at the gate on 1/24/22 happened because I asked Guard Joshua Comeaux to bring the scanner to the card, as I did not want to give it up to him. You can only see the last of his reaction in the video because of the time lag between the beginning of his rant and starting the video. He screamed the “F” word three times in front of my two minor daughters. The only evidence that his report is falsified, is three eyewitnesses and conditional probability. After you view the video, you will see that it is comical that he stated on his report that I was irate, if I were irate it would show on the guardhouse monitor if not erased. Several false statements on his falsified report, again his false statements are perpetuated by Charles Brown to John Paul.
“Examination of the alleged violations committed: policy guide, Chapter 1, Article 5, Section 6, only states that a Property Owner Card must be shown to a POA employee to access amenities and facilities. I was not attempting to access an amenity or facility and Securitas are not POA employees. All of the rest of the policies mentioned are completely baseless, poppycock gibberish, having nothing to do with these alleged incidents, ask Rose Law firm. The only Policy that needs to be remembered by the entire POA chain of command, pertaining to these incidents of backing up traffic because of the circumstances of their own making, is Chapter Three- Public Safety, Article 1, Ingress & Egress, Section 1. Policy: “Hot Springs Village property owners have the unimpaired right to ingress and egress to property owned by him/her”. HSVPOA Declaration, Article 8, Section 6: “Each Owner shall have a right of ingress and egress and passage over all private ways of access for vehicles for himself, members of his household”… The POA cannot place restrictive rules on Property Owners without their 2/3rds majority consent.
“Charging $10 for stickers is another impairment to Property Owner’s rite of passage, I was the only Director that voted against this Poll Tax. You cannot charge for passage to your property. Far better security will be achieved with every eligible Owner and member of his/her household with a vehicle having a free sticker that can go through the left or right lane, and get rid of the failed carnival sticks that cause bottleneck congestion and which serve no purpose to stop the less that one-tenth of one percent of vehicles that have no business in HSV.
“For the very few who can hear, hearsay produces rumors and rumors are compounded when they are based on false information. I have prepared an apology for those few who are human enough to sign it.
“I made a disparaging comment about a person that I should not have made. I honestly was NOT speaking from first-hand experience but only going by hearsay. Since I made a public comment about Peter Kirk Denger, I would like to publicly apologize. I am sorry for my unfounded comment. Hopefully, I will learn in the future to speak only from experience instead of posting second-hand comments. Please forgive me for my rude and misinformed comment.
Signed by_______________________.
“The content of these POA allegations is a prime example of attempted political character assassination by the current board of Directors who created the conditions for and condone falsified reports. They do not want anyone on the Board who does not go along with their charade that they have any idea of what they are doing. Why have they not filled the empty seat on the board with the next best candidate chosen by the Property Owners in the last election? Why are they hiding the EGP spreadsheet from the assessment increase vote?
“When you see unanimous voting on every vote except to feed deer, you can be sure that every one of them is complicit and condone each other’s behavior.”
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Click here to read the reports from the HSVPOA, Securitas Security, and the HSV Police Department.
Click here to watch the videos released by Mr. Denger.
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Thank you for visiting Hot Springs Village People. If you like, please comment below; we love to hear your opinion. Thank you for keeping the comments polite and on topic. Please use your real name. If you are an HSV Property Owner, please join us in our private Facebook Group. Click here to join the group. If you would like to submit an article for publication, please contact us through this website. Be sure to bookmark this website.
Leigh Ann Cheek
02/08/2022 — 8:39 am
I politely decline to sign your prepared apology note, much like I declined Johnny Smith’s check yes/no note in the 5th grade.
My opinion, on both, remain the same
Lorri Street
02/08/2022 — 10:22 am
That’s just plain cuckoo! Won’t get my vote Kirk…
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:25 am
Lorri, you did not get my vote.
Connie
02/08/2022 — 11:29 am
You cannot simply hand out decals which are not issued yearly. They can be monitored and holders kept current from year to year with the moving in and out of the Village. If you have a decal for 5 years, but move from the village the second year, how can you control entry into the village? What’s so hard about having a POA card and a decal? People want a gate to control entry, and with that comes restrictions.
Janet I Hinnenberg
02/08/2022 — 2:18 pm
Good point! The decals do need to be changed yearly so we can be assured that the person possessing it actually lives in the Village!
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:29 am
Connie, I agree, annual stickers for every eligible vehicle at no cost. There are no restrictions on Property Owner Ingress and egress.
LLOYD SHERMAN
02/08/2022 — 11:48 am
Exactly what is your point Kirk? You set this situation up to make a point. What is it? If you don’t like the current system, what is your solution? Or is it nothing more than you trying to get publicity? Simply voting no on something the board passed is not an achievement unless you have a solution and I haven’t seen one presented. In fact, have you ever produced an alternative for the things you are against, or not for?
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:21 am
The point is the compliance division through the BOD are impairing Property Owner ingress by taking your card and scanning it. This has been going on for only the last couple of weeks in our fifty year existance. This is unproductive, because they do not have handheld scanners and discriminatory, because it is not done equally to Property Owners with stickers. Paying dues or not, Declaration and policy dictates ingress to Property Owners. The solution is stickers for all eligible vehicles at no cost, decreasing security man hours. Same reasoning, I gave when I voted against it. You, on the other hand made the comment that it wasn’t “chump change” as you voted for doubling the charge from $5 charged 2 years before there was no charge for two years.
As for alternatives for things I voted against:
I voted against terminating the CEO. Somehow she paid $500,000 cash for a CMP, something 2 GM could not pay $500,000 for garbage cans without borrowing with interest.
She paid $1.5 million cash for a pool and another $400,000 cash for Pickleball courts. While the last 2 GMs could not buy even with a $3,000,000 government payout, 6 unneeded garbage trucks without putting the association in $2,000,000 more debt. I voted against that also. Better alternative would be to buy one truck IF necessary for $150,000 cash.
How can the CEO pay cash with the same annual POA revenue and the next 2 GMs have to borrow?
I voted against a $2.5 million, 5 year contract with Securitas. Better to have our own guards like we had for forty-eight years.
I voted against changing the Declaration to place restrictions on Property rights without a Property Owner vote.
I voted against censoring Director’s free speech, by making Property Owner communications only with Chair and Vice Chair approval. All Board members are and should be equal.
I voted against the Eblast by the spin doctor extraordinaire and co that degraded your character when you resigned.
LLOYD SHERMAN
02/12/2022 — 12:13 pm
Kirk – As for access to your property, no one is attempting to stop access to one’s property. This is a GATED community and as such, entry is restricted to only those who should have access. The reinstitution of charging for stickers was considered due to no rationale existing for having removed it in the first place, and the board at that time was not ready to consider raising assessments. And please keep in mind, that board was facing an extremely weak cashflow period, mostly as a result of items you note later in your response.
And yes, you were the only board member who voted against terminating the then CEO contract. It was a head-scratcher then and remains so today. Due to the incompetence of previous boards, a perpetual employment contract was adopted that could only be terminated by a 6 of 7 board member vote. Unless the CEO resigned, the only way to break the contract was by the action taken by the board and would have automatically rolled into another two-year period had that action not been taken. This action was recommended by legal counsel and the board acted on it when they could. Your very words about frivolous spending still confuses at least me as to why you voted no!
As for all the things you voted against, I see nothing in your responses that provides a good business alternative. For instance, hiring our own guards. We have enough trouble keeping a full staff of police and maintenance staff. You are suggesting we take on another nightmare of hiring and managing yet another high turnover rate function. The cost of turnover alone and the training it takes would be another management nightmare. Again, simply voting against something is an activity, not a solution.
And as you brought it up, my resignation can be tied directly back to the members who were on the board at the time. Allowing a departing GM to not only disparage me, but basically the Village, was not one of your finer hours. The failure of this same board to handle someone who leaked a private email regarding a GM personnel matter was the final straw. For that reason, I can’t bring myself to vote for either you or the two incumbents who are running.
HSVP C
02/08/2022 — 1:10 pm
People are making comments and not leaving their full real names. Some others are name-calling. If you do either of those things, you are just wasting your time and mine. I have asked for comments to remain polite and for people to use their real names. It is pretty easy to sit behind a keyboard and make anonymous accusations and insults. If you want your comment published, it is pretty easy:
1. Use your real name.
2. Remain polite.
This does not mean you have to agree with anyone.
Kirk Denger
02/11/2022 — 11:21 pm
Thank you Cheryl.
Patty Baker
02/08/2022 — 2:03 pm
I dare you to work the gate for a week and see how it feels on the other side.
Danny Stephens
02/08/2022 — 2:48 pm
A self written apology for others to sign??? The height of pomposity!
These incidents mirror the outrage after a police shooting of someone who refused to comply. Both the person shot and the person creating incidents at the gate refused to comply and created the drama which led to justified consequences. How many vehicles/people pass through the gates each day that DO COMPLY without creating drama?
Additionally, no one is being “charged” for windshield decals. People choose to purchase decals for THEIR convenience much like people paying for the convenience of VIP parking at events or better seating at such events.
Tom Blakeman
02/08/2022 — 7:08 pm
Who’aah! Who got shot, when and where?
Danny Stephens
02/08/2022 — 9:36 pm
It was a reference to people not complying to police commands, resisting and ending up getting shot throughout the country. No one was shot at HSV. Operative word is COMPLY, whether to police or in this case to gate security.
Kirk Denger
02/11/2022 — 11:19 pm
Danny, there is a difference between security guards and Police.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:32 am
Thanks Tom, for holding commenters to a sense of reality.
Melissa Sorell
02/08/2022 — 3:55 pm
You may or may not pay for a vehicle decal. It provides convenience not the right to enter. POA cards are your proof of right to enter/access to your property. There is no annual fee for the card. Pay your assessments and the card is valid. Sell your property/move/delinquent assessment status will cause the card to be deactivated.
I believe this is how the system is supposed to work. I am aware individuals and businesses have, in the past, purchased additional decals to circumvent the system. But in a world of integrity the system should work.
End Scene
Lindy Dickson
02/09/2022 — 6:42 am
I thought there WAS a cost to get a POA card? Am I not remembering correctly? Forgive me, we just moved in October……
Kirk Denger
02/11/2022 — 11:15 pm
Linda, yes there is a charge for a card to ingress to your property. The POA BOD charges Property Owners to ingress and egress their property.
Danny Stephens
02/12/2022 — 2:19 pm
Give it up Denger. You were wrong, Security and POA were right. Withdraw from the election and give the rest of us some peace.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:43 am
Melissa, the right of Property Owners ingress and egress is inalienable. The scanner is for the unmanned gates. Deactivation can only happen when you are no longer on a title of land within the Village. When was the last time your card was scanned at the Golf course, the restaurants, fitness center, pool, pickleball…
How were you made aware that additional decals were purchased for the purpose of circumventing the system? That actually can’t happen. Proof of ownership is required for each sticker.
Walter Chance
02/08/2022 — 4:33 pm
Kirk. You were not being reasonable. The gate guards were actually doing their jobs and I commend them. I would rather pay for an annual sticker and go through the pass through lane. Your whole explanation seems senseless. You have lost all credibility by this incident.
Kirk Denger
02/11/2022 — 11:10 pm
Walter, SOP, standard operating procedure is to ask for alternant ID if there is no sticker or POA card. Commend the guard if you will, but the guard did not do their job. I accept your judgement.
Valerie Mettler
02/08/2022 — 5:15 pm
This is insane! Kurt, you held up traffic just because you weren’t going to be inconvenienced to show your ID and/or buy a sticker. Are you kidding me? And, the guard NEVER said “you can’t go home”. She DID say that you would have to turn around. Which is what she’s instructed to say. No sticker, no ID, no entry. PERIOD. And, I sincerely hope that you’re really not giving or showing people your business card saying you’re on the Board of Directors, because you’re not. If these videos were supposed to get people to see your side of the issue and encourage us to “support” you, you failed miserably. My opinion only and, no, I won’t be signing or issuing any apologies.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 12:54 am
Traffic was held up by the security guard not me. Check the time stamp on the evidence. The backup occurred while the guard was on the phone holding me up as well. If i had to turn around how would I get home? I am not responsible for what the guard’s instructions are.
You do not read let alone understand Policy or Declaration. I did not say I was a current Director, the Video proves that. I do not want your support. You are entitled to form your opinion not the facts.
Gregory Hester
02/08/2022 — 6:15 pm
If Mr. Denger thinks this will gain him any sympathy or support, he’s sadly mistaken. Evidently this is all because he objects to paying a minimal amount for an optional window sticker to make entry easier, but then he won’t abide by the very clear guidelines for entry without a window sticker. I commend the gate staff for not putting up with his nonsense; the fault for the delays and his difficulties rest solely on his shoulders.
Michael Misch
02/08/2022 — 7:25 pm
A set up ,attention getting ,tantrum in my opinion. We need to support the people who are manning the gates.They shouldn’t have to put up with this kind of nonsense.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 1:55 am
Gregory, if you only knew what the clear guidelines are, can you tell everyone what they are?
Larry Siener
02/08/2022 — 7:31 pm
OK Kirk…after reviewing your “expose” video it’s totally apparent who the troublemaker was…and it’s YOU!
You attempted to “flash” your driver’s license, but it could not be viewed clearly through the plastic in your wallet and your tinted window…which you didn’t bother to put down. Then when the guard requested that you remove your license from your wallet so she could see it clearly you did not comply…at that point you became argumentative and non-compliant.
When the HSV officer responded you took a totally different tone…rolling your window down and being polite, if deceptive. Frankly you’re lucky that you did not receive a citation for obstructing traffic, which you richly deserved!
The individual in this situation who deserves an apology is NOT you, it is the unfortunate guard who had to put up with your fit of childish pique.
Wasn’t going to vote for you anyway but thanks for confirming my judgement.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:01 am
Larry, my windows are not tinted, I did not flash my DL through the plastic in my wallet, the guard did not ask to remove my DL from my wallet. If you saw any of those things on the video, you were watching the wrong video or it is your judgement.
Stacy Lowe
02/08/2022 — 8:47 pm
Peter…Kirk…. Whatever.. when you intently (*) disrupt flow of traffic, communication, and confirmation/authoritative requests… by.. *legally, professionally assigned,put in place, guards.. for ALL our protection . AND …NOT for you to de-rail, unequivocally question and or verbally/physically harass.. These are PAID PEOPLE put in place to ASK FOR YOUR ID, even your intentions for being there can be questioned…. Stop running open armed with video and witness in hand to ATTEMPT to dispell and dispatch your ever told experience..
Starting to look like more like an inhibited recourse… The somewhat FAILED ATTEMPT in the past for a FULL TERM “BOD” seat..? Gaining a temp position hmmm.. One thinks…*proxy”? Your unsolicited, tantrum-like attempts and constant BASHING against these HSV RULES AND REGS, and BOD are showing the village your TRUE mindset… The same BOD AND RULES that have been VOTED and put in PLACE for everyone… MANY OF US HAVE PUT ON DEAF EARS OF YOUR FOREVER DISTASTES IN ANYTHING “VILLAGE”.. Stop the guard bashing, stop the police bashing, stop the gate bashing stop the tattle telling tell all ANTIcs you continue to muster… NO one owes you any EXPLANATION… Rules are rules… You CAN READ AND WRITE,..a third grader would clearly understand the requests made at that gate on that day.. Those gate keepers showed you more respect, integrity and options THAN YOU EVER DESERVED.. Oh one dude said a bad word?… Around your kids?.. PLEASE,.. I’ve been in your presence too numerous to count for nearly Ten years .. And I must say “DUDE,..IMO, I’ve witnessed your own actions…much more vile issues than a “naughty word around my kids” !! Point be, YOU BROUGHT this UNNECESSARY ACTION up in front of your OWN kids.. WHO DOES THAT??? UGHHH..so stop your finger pointing, it’s not very nice… Let it go…You don’t like the posted rules??…. Vote… Move,… Or suck it up…if that doesn’t work for you, and you continue, and /or plan to, continue with ,..these unprevoked incidents of YOU being inconvenienced.. And your outrageous attempts at demeaning this town.. Well… Then find a lawyer for your complaints… My $.02 worth…
“I suggest you find a really really … REALLY Good One .. because you’re going to need it!! Stepping off my soapbox..
LET’S GEAUX BRANDON!!
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:06 am
Rules and regulations need to be voted on by a 2/3rds majority of Property Owners, not made up by a POA employee.
Susan Posner
02/08/2022 — 9:51 pm
OMG what an arrogant, rude, childish community of gripers. Never of other associations some larger than this have I seen such craziness and drama. Seen adolescents act better. I’m talking about all not one. Why is any of this stuff even on here and not being taken directly to the board. Shows the dysfunctional community and association. What a lemon this place turned out to be, too bad no lemon law against associations. Guess it’s buyer beware. Oh and those aren’t security guards they’re gate keepers. Real security would be patrolling in here for association covenants, police are for crime. Good grief you all.
Susan Posner
02/09/2022 — 8:25 am
You get what you pay for
https://www.womply.com/biz/securitas-security-services-usa-little-rock-AR/
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Securitas/reviews?fcountry=ALL&fjobtitle=Guard
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/employment/securitas-security-services-usa.html
Susan Posner
02/09/2022 — 10:40 am
This security outfit unlike the last one apparently, it’s not just employee complaints but customers too and widespread. Seen lots of lax security at booths myself, last outfit was much better, knew what to do on their own and guards were same not revolving door as this one is. Maybe we contract out too much or don’t research outfits first. Certainly, pay more but get less.
https://www.complaintsboard.com/securitas-b123106
Mrs. Katherine Miller
02/09/2022 — 1:02 pm
Securitas has an above average rating on the indeed website, which is very positive considering that most people do not bother to post a rating unless it is negative. On the webpage your complaintsboard post linked to, I tapped Security Services (which is the category Securitas is in) and then I looked at every listing with more than one star. The best of those had an obsolete website address and all the rest were personal home wiring systems. The other two websites are just for complaints and they do not offer any relevant category for comparisons.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 12:14 am
They have a average of 2 star rating in 5 star class. Those are direct employees of the company all security guards complaints against company with some people that had bad experienced with their security guards. Few about security system. Securitas Security Systems Inc USA (Securitas for short) company offers security at gate booths of residential, of commercial sites, of hospitals, they offer security electronic systems as well. BUT these are employee past and present of that company reviews there’s more review sites than I offered. OH>>> they have had multiple lawsuits against them as well. Just a few examples. Yeah just a great company with such great guards…see first link you might be familiar with this case!!!
https://www.unionleader.com/news/crime/timberland-murder-not-first-criminal-case-involving-securitas-security-guard/article_a53f66b5-64ec-5510-ba5e-22b3d69d0318.html
https://www.securitassecuritysettlement.com/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/closed-settlements/securitas-security-services-usa-class-action-settlement/
Have a nice night pleasant dreams
Mrs. Katherine Miller
02/10/2022 — 9:55 am
Actually, on the indeed website, Securitas has a rating of 3.2 of 5. That is very good, considering that the vast majority of those who bother to rate are irate.
As for your newly posted references, there is no large company with 100% perfect people because there are no perfect people.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 12:57 am
Oh yeah well maybe this is ok
https://people.com/crime/former-security-guard-urge-to-murder-oregon-woman/
Pegi Redix
02/09/2022 — 2:55 pm
Our guards are fully licensed security guards through the State of Arkansas. The contract is for the gates only, not for patrolling the Village. The former contract with Allied paid the guards more than the present contract with Securitas. Securitas was the #1 security company in the world until Allied purchased G4S last year. Allied/G4S has positions all over the Central Arkansas area. It is only understandable that our guards might seek a better paying job out of the extreme weather if given the opportunity. As much as they enjoy the Villagers, sometimes a person has to do what’s best for them and their family.
Susan Posner
02/09/2022 — 11:30 pm
Oh you want believe what you want to believe. NO they are not a license, it’s a certification and they pay 12.88 hr and only require high school diploma and retail experience. Stop your delusions and look for yourselves, job postings for their positions in here and see the reviews too on same job site. Yes we all try to best for our families including us owners in here.
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Securitas/jobs?jk=7368f383208a780a&start=0&clearPrefilter=1
https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/hot-springs-village-security-officer-jobs-SRCH_IL.0,19_IC1143139_KO20,36.htm?rdserp=true&jl=1007524441655&guid=0000017ee210daa4b78bf7be30f4d279&pos=102&src=GD_JOB_AD&t=ESR&srs=EI_JOBS&s=21&ao=1136043&jrtk=3-0-1frh11movu4gm801-1frh11mpbu3eg800-8b189a3b793ddeb7-
Danny Stephens
02/10/2022 — 4:29 am
OK, Susan Posner. We all know you are one of maybe two or three people that support Denger. But attacking our security in an attempt to make him look good is ridiculous. They do the job well that the POA has hired them to do so you can move along now.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:10 am
Danny, falsifying reports is not doing a good job. Not trying to make anyone look good or bad, study the evidence.
Pegi Redix
02/10/2022 — 9:42 am
Are you attempting to imply that our guards are somewhat inferior people, so that justifies Mr. Denger’s behavior? Several of our guards have everywhere from Associates degrees to 4 years college to one with a double major in finance. We have military veterans and reservists. We have some with several years experience in security from other states. Some of those have been with Securitas for a few years and are excelling. If it were such an awful company, I doubt they would have remained. Several live in the Village and are property owners. No one could have predicted that 3-4 months after the Securitas contract began that numerous other area companies would increase their minimum wage to $17-$20 an hour thus making what had been a competitive wage suddenly not as attractive. You might not respect them, but let me assure you they have a great deal of respect for all Villagers and greatly appreciate the kindness and generosity the Villagers have shown them.
Kirk Denger
02/10/2022 — 11:09 pm
Pegi Redix, are you attempting to imply that Mr. Denger’s behavior justifies falsifying reports? The guard never asked for a Drivers license, yet her reports say she did— nine times. And reports based on her reports falsely made the same claim—6 more times
Susan Posner
02/11/2022 — 10:03 am
Who the hell do you think you are addressing me like that. I’m not interested in your opinion of me. I have a BA degree that doesn’t mean anything unless you use it and certainly doesn’t make you special. Not one time did I put down any guards not one time, I exposed a poor business model of a company toward their workers. As for those two guards committing murder working for that company too many violent acts are related to job conditions is why I added them. Sorry you can’t connect the association. Never ever have I mistreated any worker in here nor a resident. But you address me in a hurtful way. That is a personal attack on me and not an opinion on topic.
Deborah King
02/08/2022 — 10:40 pm
Mr. Denger, I don’t know what you’re attempting to accomplish by beating this dead horse. Your arguments are ridiculous, and at this point you just look like a troublemaker. Do you really think this is going to win a seat on the Board? My 3 lot-votes say no. Go away…quietly.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:13 am
Vote how you like. This incident has nothing to do with winning a seat on the Board, it has to do with unimpaired ingress to my property.
Kim Victorine
02/09/2022 — 7:45 am
I am glad to see that most of the Villagers are in agreement that this was a very poor representation of who we are. Ubunto: What hurts you, hurts me. My wife and I drove thru the West Gate to drop off some brownies for the guards. We thanked them for their service and let them know how much they were appreciated. We also apologized for the behavior of some of our HSV residents.
Jerry schilling
02/09/2022 — 9:14 am
Mr. Kirk was obviously grandstanding and an attention getting individual. He is planning to be on the ballot for a Director spot on the Board of Directors. We need them to be of good standing to be a candidate. Mr. Kirk is far from a member of good standing. He should voluntarily remove himself from the ballot.
Sheila M
02/09/2022 — 9:32 am
Thank you for making me smile. I am sure your request for an apology was intended as ironic satire……. But you must realize that you (Kirk D) should be the one to apologize- not only to the gate employees but also to the members of the HSV community for been childish. Obviously, this was a self-serving attempt to push your own agenda.
It was a FAIL, so let’s move on.
LOL…..If you would like we can draft an apology letter for you
Stanley Kaleta
02/09/2022 — 9:58 am
Yes. read all about the Villages security issues. I came here with my wife to retire to a safe environment, thus a gated community attracted us. After 50 years this Village , thus far, is a remarkable Cooper Community, but some of us are not satisfied on the security via gates. If the gates are porous people will game the system, they are already doing it now! Look, Villagers could do what they want, but we, my wife and I, are ready to move if this issue not resolved, in that, this should not be an issue after 50 years and that scares me.
Joy Stefan
02/09/2022 — 1:19 pm
Kirk’s own video shows his true colors… he must love to irritate and harass, with total disregard for any innocent people he is creating problems for (as in backing up traffic, for which he should have been charged). He certainly set a very poor example of how to act responsibly around his own children who are said to have been in the back seat of the car.
The way he completely changed his demeanor when the police arrived did show he knows when he can act like a disrespectful child and when he can’t (knowing he could be charged by the police for non-compliance.)
I actually thought you had to show your HSV issued photo ID card for admission if you don’t have a current windshield sticker. I didn’t know you could just show your driver’s license.
At any rate, Kirk figured he was free to harass, refuse to roll down his window, refuse to present his license in a way the guard could actually read what it says, etc. because the guard could not charge him with a penalty that would come back to haunt him. I hope the POA and or Board will revoke any privileges he may retain, since they DO have the means to teach him his actions will not be tolerated.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:19 am
There’s a lot that you don’t know.
Corine May
02/09/2022 — 2:57 pm
Have the proper sticker on your vehicles. Have your valid POA card to show when asked by security. Those are the rules. It shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s not hard, it’s not outrageous, everyone else handles the rules ok.
I understand you are running for POA board…you won’t get elected due to this nonsense. POA needs clear thinking, fair minded people. This shows you are not.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:20 am
You are free to follow the rules.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 12:37 am
Oh people please board doesn’t research companies contracted, why on earth would they hire this security company guards murdered people, national headlines you’ll all remember 2017 Have a nice night and pleasant dreams!
https://people.com/crime/former-security-guard-urge-to-murder-oregon-woman/
Pegi Redix
02/10/2022 — 7:19 pm
If this is how you would vet possible new security for the Village then you might need to immediately remove Allied/G4S from your list for it was reported that a G4S guard committed the horrific mass murder at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando in 2016. Would we then need to, also, ban the Post Office and UPS from entry to the Village on these same grounds? This is not how one vets a company of any sort for any contract.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 4:04 am
There another Securitas guard violence you all should remember https://abcnews.go.com/US/charlottesville-attack-suspect-denied-bail/story?id=49204733
Dave Johnson
02/10/2022 — 11:18 am
It is a shame that Susan is attempting to disparage an entire company to protect the bad behavior of her friend. Most villagers know what she is doing and fully support Securitas.
Deborah King
02/10/2022 — 11:32 am
Agreed. Ms. Posner posts irrelevant crimes in other states as if it excuses Mr. Denger’s abuse of our gate policies right here in our community. The guards at our own gate did what they were hired to do—turn away the riff-raff who do not possess or show the proper credentials for admission.
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:21 am
Is it bad behavior to ingress your property?
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 4:17 pm
You all are delusional on here the track record of this security outfit is bad and well I.m not defending Kirk. No where on here did I say Kirk not showing ID was ok in fact other article on it I said it was not right. Nor that I’m voting for anyone. More your delusions reading into where there isn’t any. I’m pointing out your boards don’t research the track records on contract companies before contracting. Not the first time we have had shoddy contracts. And I pay my assessments and decals and have every right to question a company and it’s complaints and crimes their employees commit as my money pays for contract. Out of state crimes or not it shows that this Securitas corporation has poor track record of disgruntled employees and customers they are around. And those employee reviews, lawsuits and violent crimes not just on Indeed if take the time to research you’d see there is something very wrong with companies treatment of employees. And that can lead to employee apathy on the job. This is not security all they do is check a cars decal, whose in the car is anybodies guess. true security is owners responsible to secure their own property and rest needs patrolling not a stationary person waving at you as you go in the decal lane. If you care about security then lock your doors and get security for your house and then expand a citizen patrol or get mobile security profit. You care about security well why are you putting up with Airbnb that the declaration prohibits on residential streets, those are revolving strangers not residents. Buyers buy in associations to avoid unsafe and unsightly they could get living next door outside of associations, so what are you paying association for if same stuff could be outside of here. Sorry you can’t understand the buyers in associations nor why even contractors you let in can be criminals. Was big mistake choosing this association been nothing but drama and trashing neighbors with foul name calling they don’t agree with nor even know personally for that matter. Mrs Katherine Miller you and I met once when you first arrived and we sat at 50th anniversary committee planning and I recall we had a nice conversation. Others some know my suggestions and opinions without meeting me from posts so you know I research and bring that to things you all bring up as concerns. You may ignore it or consider it, but do not judge me for it least I show concern every time you all bitch about something in here. But I’ll let you continue your bashing and name calling uninhibited from now on. I’m not voting at all as there is no viable candidate Id want on board did my research and vetting on that already. Have a pleasant day!
Danny Stephens
02/10/2022 — 4:28 pm
Sounds like you are not happy, maybe The Village is not the right fit for your residency.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 5:38 pm
Typical answer so can say the same for your comments. Oh I intend to in my own time not yours dear neighbor
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 2:33 am
Danny, Unhappy people see unhappiness everywhere you go because everywhere you go, you will still find yourself.
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 4:48 pm
Consider if there are outsiders and insiders who might just be here to take advantage of seniors. AARP has written on these associations in so called retirement communities before. Promoting this place in recent years as retirement community sets us all up for con artists and others who see opportunity to profit off of. Threats you should be concerned these days isn’t silly Kirk videos but who’s targeting your nest egg. Private village not a state watched dog municipality is way more susceptible.
Pegi Redix
02/10/2022 — 7:36 pm
The Village was conceived, built, and marketed as a retirement community that the average person could afford to retire to in comfort and enjoy their retirement years. This was over 50 years ago. It has been marketed as such for the vast majority of its years with the exception of only a few years where some felt we needed to appeal to the 40 yr olds. That brief campaign was not quite as successful as the original plan. We advertised in retirement and golf magazines. We were wholly marketed as a retirement community. We are a retirement community. This is not a new concept for the Village.
Susan Posner
02/11/2022 — 10:15 am
No this has not been only retirement community I already talked to John Cooper it was always a multi generational developed community. Meaning it would promote all and it isn’t a retirement community as of present. No age restriction, retirement communities are. Maybe that wholly marketing as retirement and golf is why HSV can’t get new houses built and has way too many defaulted properties. Places to retire in the south are a dime a dozen, lived in Florida and it’s over rated as retirement state attracted too many criminals and con artists that prey on retirees. Keep going down that rabbit hole and you will have more crime and more con artists in here preying on retirees. I like having all age groups living here, unlike some others who don’t.
HSVP C
02/11/2022 — 10:33 am
Sue, just a little update. HSV builders are building many new houses, as fast as they can. We only have a few homes (high teens) currently on the market. True, all ages are welcome and this is not an age-restricted community but the majority of Villagers are of retirement age. Mr. Cooper originally marketed to the folks in different parts of the country who would buy lots and eventually retire here. That would be a primary factor why it could never have been designated as an age-restricted community. This is a very safe place to live. Thank you and hope you have a nice day.
Susan Posner
02/12/2022 — 11:32 pm
Cheryl I’ve seen the update and resale homes=revolving door. New homes=growth, but not being built much as building supply shortages continue. Selling empty lots with no commitment build=default over no real intent to live here just member discounts is poor sale practice. What the 1st did 50 years ago brief marketing is irrelevant as later developing which was not to retirement only, swing to retirement that has been more recent. There are no golf lots to build on, because board didn’t want to reduce some to executive courses to plot more golf lots. 9 courses isn’t sustainable and large reason we’ve had 2 assessment increases in 5 years. Recovery will be slow and no one can predict external factors impacting demographics. So it would be prudent not to limit into retirement only. You have a nice day too.
stan kaleta
02/11/2022 — 10:48 am
Yes, you are spot on with your comment, in that, approx 65+%Villagers are age 60 and older and by demographics , nevertheless, are fully retired or working part-time. I would make an intelligent guess that , if asked, would respond with agreement ,that the perception would be that this Village is a retirement community by proxy. Basically, that being said, when it comes to a vote, I`am sure that the majority will vote in ones best interest. The issues still remains the noise in between !
Kirk Denger
02/12/2022 — 3:02 am
Stan, 40% are under 60, at least 1000 are students with parents.
At some point it is 50/50, age 65? what is retirement age? Did Cooper care who the money came from? What is the percentage of who cares now? 3%?
Susan Posner
02/10/2022 — 5:39 pm
Typical answer so can say the same for your comments. Oh I intend to in my own time not yours dear neighbor
Pegi Redix
02/11/2022 — 11:38 am
Kirk Denger, The supervisor clearly states that you failed to provide any form of ID. You quickly produced your DL to the male police officer without him having to ask. You are the property owner. The rules require you to show proof to our guards that you are a member of our community. The rules do not require our guards to play 20 Questions with you until they find a form of ID you are willing to share. From your own videos, we have learned that you recently harassed two other guards in this way, Joshua and a different female guard. It appears the supervisor might have been on hand to deal with you herself to prevent her staff from having to endure your utter disrespect and to formally document your behavior. I do not consider any documents to have been purposely falsified. I do believe you owe the security guards, the police department, and the Villagers a sincere apology. And as I stated on your YouTube page, I truly hope you do not consider this one of your finer moments.
Kirk Denger
02/11/2022 — 9:34 pm
Pegi Redix, “The supervisor clearly states that you failed to provide any form of ID.”
Those words are not in the report, your statement is false.
“I advised him that if he could not provide any documentation he will have to turn around”
and “I asked for POA card or drivers licence” Is what the guard’s report falsely state.
Proof is in the video.
Neither of these statements are true. if you have the ability to prove otherwise, I will continue this conversation with you to show the many other false statements on her report. Real time video is hard to argue. The rest of your statements are as false as your first.
Pegi Redix
02/12/2022 — 12:29 pm
Kirk Denger, My statement is not false. In your video, the supervisor clearly makes the statement to the first police officer. My other statements are not false either. Surely as a property owner for 40 years, a small business owner operating inside the Village, and a former member of the Board of Directors, you are aware of the rules and regulations we all agree to when we purchase property inside the Village. Did you not receive the E-Blast pertaining to the new changes at the gates when the Securitas contract began? Or the update on the penalty for noncompliance with the officers’ enforcements of our rules? Perhaps you should pick up a copy from the POA. Your actions and statement to Securitas Officer Joshua on the 24th and I quote, “I don’t have to show you sh*t.” and then preceding to run the gate in front of him and Officer Cox should have called for your immediate suspension of all Village privileges. When you were on the Board of Directors, did you condone all the numerous incidents of people running the gates while operating under the Allied contract? Did you behave this way under the Allied contract? And why not share with us how you behaved to the other female guard that someone in your vehicle mentions in the video? It must have been quite memorable for them to have asked if this was the same female. Would you as a member of the Board of Directors condone this behavior if we all chose this method as a form of entry? You mentioned in your reply to Mr. Sherman that you did not vote for the Securitas contract. Do you think this justifies harassing their guards, obstructing traffic, and wasting police time and resources? Obviously, a majority of the Board voted in favor of their contract. Do you believe that your vote should have overruled the majority? Do you, also, truly believe that your acting out is creating any form of positive change for your cause or the Village? Would it not be more fruitful to go through the proper channels to present your ideas than to constantly harass our guards who have absolutely nothing to do with the changing of our rules and regulations, only the enforcement? Do you behave this way towards TSA personnel or hotel desk clerks? I would think not.
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 9:55 am
Your first statement is still false and your statement here is irrelevant. False statements made by the guard after the incident, does not change what did not happen earlier.
Gender is also immaterial, what the passenger asked was if this was the same guard as before that cussed me out. He was not female as you suggested.
The other guards report is provably falsified also as it seems to be standard procedure with Securitas.
You have consumed much of your energy on a pile of opinions that are all irrelevant to the fact that the guard did not ask for a driver’s license.
The guard falsified reports that say she did.
Pegi Redix
02/13/2022 — 4:12 pm
Kirk Denger, If I misheard what your child said, then I stand corrected. I did not suggest that Joshua was a girl. It sounded as though there had been a third guard you had confronted who was a female. I do not believe any guard purposely falsified a report. I believe they reported the incidents to the best of their memory while still suffering from your attacks. I will always support our guards and their companies just like I will always support our POA employees over the rule breaking and harassment by residents. If you have lost your privileges over this bad behavior, then why not just apologize and accept the consequences of your actions. No one at Securitas forced you to behave this way. This was your choice. You are better than this. Our community is better than this.
Keith V. Hall
02/12/2022 — 10:26 am
Sir,
I reject your argument and disapprove of your methods. Staging an engagement with a contract teammate is below your resident tenure, former position, and current candidacy. I encourage you to publicly accept the recommended adverse action and then use your voice and platform in more appropriate venues.
I am not unsympathetic to some of your opinions. There are issues and conditions here which require attention. Simply put, and despite the years that have passed, we continue to struggle with the transition from developer to self-governance. All of our community challenges can be traced to that event. However, choosing to engage with contract employees and create dangerous public conditions is not an acceptable course of action.
As to the behavior of employees on the gate during these incidents, I recommend that you leave that to Mr. Brown and follow-up with him and his supervisor. Just as importantly, ad hominem attacks on our contract partners are unwarranted and ill-advised. There are COR processes to address contractor performance and I recommend you and your contemporaries use them. Likewise, public comment by current contract employees on this or any other social media platform are inappropriate and should be administratively addressed by the COR (who I presume is Mr. Brown.)
Lastly, I wish for you to understand why I object to your actions and am sensitive to issues at the gates.
A relatively short eight years ago, I was a PRO on the West Gate, assigned the “Combat Tour” – Friday through Sunday nights. You may also recall that I was the Village’s first Beach Patrolman. During this time I was routinely harassed; cursed; spit on; and nearly run over three times by residents up to and including a former drunken GM. Non-compliance to communal policy and just plain miserable human behavior was a near standard. I share this because I want you to understand what it’s like to be on the receiving end – repetitively challenged and often abused for no other reason than following the stated rules, performing your duties with elan, and trying to create the physical security that residents say is important to them.
I have no doubt there are problems and frustrations at the programmatic level, but I have noted positive professionalization of the gate force.
Be better than your recent actions. Take your concerns to the level appropriate to the issue. Work the problem.
HSVP C
02/12/2022 — 11:18 am
Keith, thank you for your service at the gates and also the Beach Patrol. I am very sorry to hear of the abuse you were forced to endure.
Keith V. Hall
02/12/2022 — 12:48 pm
Thank you, Ma’am, but it was not my intent to garner sympathy for my own experience. Rather, I wished to point out to Mr. Denger that he is now either wittingly or unwittingly the focal point in a much larger narrative of which most residents are unaware. Unacceptable behaviors continue across the entire community, and they are rarely reported to the general public.
Nor was it my intent with my first posting here to appear hypocritical. It is well known that I have strongly engaged committees, staff, board, and senior leadership on a number of issues ranging from public safety to environmental abuses. When limited audiences of senior leadership would not respond, I have leveraged conventional media and external agencies to get their professional focus. In return, I have received multiple, anonymous threats.
I don’t mean to speak about Mr. Denger in the third person, given that this thread started with his posting, but the issue here isn’t Mr. Denger or the gates. It isn’t how much money we have in reserve, who is on the board, or something as mundane as the past performance of our contractors at other locations. These are “mechanical” things easily addressed by experts under good leadership guidance.
The issue is the continuing lack of ethical and professional behavior that is all too often whitewashed for the sake of marketing. It won’t be fiscal matters that are our undoing; it will be the inability to behave to a standard generally accepted to be higher than that of a municipality.
Communal self-evaluation is in order and this would be an excellent starting point. Mr Denger now has a rare opportunity available to him. I hope he uses it wisely and corrects the record.
Thank you for your gracious reply.
HSVP C
02/12/2022 — 12:55 pm
Thank you.
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 12:12 pm
Keith, as always, I admire your command of English prose and civil discourse. From your experience as a guard, you shared of being spat on, run over, harassed and cursed in order for me to understand what it is like from a guard’s perspective. Do you see or have any evidence not based on hearsay supporting this to be my behavior? I too, wish for you to understand my actions or inactions as well. Knowing you to be an honorable human, I would be correct in saying that you would not falsify your reports in order to convict a drunken GM.
I am videoing this interaction because of what I experienced at my previous ingress at the front gate, which was a shock for my minor passengers and myself. Had I fully videoed that encounter you would agree there was a complete role reversal of your negative guard experiences. My right of ingress is not staged. Without video, the only evidence available would be the false reports from Securitas, reinforced by Brown to Paul to the BOD, which is the actual source. Because of this fact, following-up with Mr. Brown and his supervisor and their employer is fruitless. I wish to make it perfectly clear that the HSVPD report is lawful and has no part of the falsified reports throughout the POA chain of command. I appreciate your counsel, and I will strive to be better in working the problem.
Keith V. Hall
02/13/2022 — 1:55 pm
Sir,
Thank you for your note.
The falsification of any record in the law enforcement, policy, or fiscal spheres is of course a serious matter worthy of further investigation. However, attempting to shrilly adjudicate this event here – an all too often court of public opinion – only further clouds the facts and doesn’t ultimately support your cause.
Just as importantly, an organizational or political battle that begins at the bottom and involves rank and file employees will never result in anything good. Regardless of how right you may or may not be, you will always appear as the aggressor. You are a senior gentleman of some accomplishment, having previously been elected to the board. Therefore, your chosen tactic in this event has automatically been construed as an abuse of privilege or an egocentric attempt to make a random point. You have lost the engagement in both the near and long term.
As I said before, I’m not unsympathetic to some of your opinions. I believe the local physical security program is exceptionally immature. I believe residents are held to a standard that interlopers are not. I believe unilateral and poorly communicated decisions are being made which effect ingress / egress. I believe we whitewash many events lest the resident population learn that all societal ills exist in HSV, and that their presence is often a direct result of our gate and physical security processes. But again, you have to work these shortfalls at the leadership level and not stage some sort of expose’, hoping for a positive outcome. Debating the validity of reports and video, both of which lack precise context and are interpreted with subjective bias, is dragging you further away from the truest part of the argument.
I can’t speak to the futility of discussion with Mr. Brown or members of our hybrid governance. I have had my own challenges with Compliance. But having been Charlie’s supervisor in a previous activity – that cultural cesspool of a beach we were tasked to tame – I can tell you that he is one of the first men I’d want by my side. He is fair, he is honest, and he is steady. He is also a very measured man, obviously aware of the shortfalls, as witnessed by his minimalist recommendation for adverse action. I recommend you seek either direct or mediated discussion with him.
Bluntly, this whole issue has gotten wildly out of control, doesn’t address the real issues, and is just noise. You, as a former senior leader and long tenured resident, have the opportunity to assist the community. I continue to recommend that you accept adverse action, make amends with the community as possible, then work what I believe to be a somewhat valid point through staff and board processes. It will be exasperating, but it must be done that way.
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 12:54 pm
Keith, I completely agree that ad hominem attacks on our contract partners are unwarranted and ill-advised. I addressed Guards as Guards of Securitas not personally, and without attacking. Please advise where ad-hominem attacks occurred, again without using hearsay or falsified reports as the source.
stan kaleta
02/12/2022 — 12:14 pm
Kirk… all I said was the majority ( seniors) will vote in their best interest, read my thread again. All you did twist what I said to create another issue all because you did not approve my statement .
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 10:03 am
I did approve with your statement and made more using your data.
Elizabeth H Berry
02/12/2022 — 3:19 pm
Wow…Did anyone comprehend the reason for Mr. Denger’s actions? I know that question will bring people’s ire up and also close their minds. How many topics and concerns where addressed while degrading Mr. Denger’s actions. For the record….I do not agree with the actions taken but I agree, in some point, with the reason for the action. If we stick with the “facts” Mr. Denger does not like the way we are charged for everything we touch or use here in the Village. A good example is the need to use paper bags for our leaves. Understandable. (I have more on that subject, but here is not the place). The sticker needed on the bag would apply in the context of paying for every thing touched or used, etc. Mr. Denger’s utmost concern, to me anyway, is the fact that the auto stickers should be provided by the POA. This fact was not addressed except in passing. What was addressed is everything from soup to nuts. I was going to list them but decided if you are not aware of what that refers to you missed the point. Several people have accused Mr. D for using this as a campaign issue. Really? I don’t think he is that illusional. I questioned the reason this incident was brought up in the first place by posting the question to Mr. D on line. It was said that I disagreed with the comments and was for non-disclosure. Nothing can be further from the truth. With disclosure in mind why has the association between a board member and the person who posted the question not been disclosed? Does it have anything to do with this matter? I really do not know but it fails
the smell test. I think it was an opportunity to discredit Mr. D. It looks as if it worked because of the non-vote statements made. Do I think his point could have been disclosed in a better way? Probably.
Let me state here that I do not know Mr. Denger on any level. This is my opinion and understanding of what has taken place.
Danny Stephens
02/12/2022 — 5:11 pm
Had Denger’s concern been free windshield decals, why did he refuse to show his POA membership card which is the only authorized exception to the decal? Had he shown his membership card he would have entered without delay the same way that many others do on a daily basis. I don’t care if he is too cheap to pay $10 for a decal, he just needs to follow the rules as written and show his membership card.
LLOYD SHERMAN
02/12/2022 — 11:38 pm
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Your points are valid, but the reality is that Mr. Denger set this situation up. Was it to make a point? Yes! Was it the way to make a point. I don’t think so. Inconveniencing someone else to get your point across cannot be accepted as good reasoning. Especially if you are wanting to be someone to represent the voice of the community. How many residents who want to be the voice of the residents would take this kind of action. I’m guessing very few. Mr. Denger put himself out there and for that, his actions speak for themself. Maybe we should give stickers to all, but we already give a membership card as a member in good standing. The stickers were only meant to be a convenience sticker for those who desired not showing their POA card. Why this continues to be such an issue is beyond me, but it struck a nerve with many and I have to guess that is what Mr. Denger intended. A little self-serving for my taste, but to each their own.
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 12:40 pm
Lloyd, the egg is a shell with a chicken inside, so they both arrived first. If the sticker is a convenience, then Property Owners not provided them are inconvenienced, by definition means trouble and difficulty or impairment. Please read declarations and policy cited in my article for clarification. A POA card is also not required for ingress except at automated gates.
LLOYD SHERMAN
02/13/2022 — 1:08 pm
Need another shovel Kirk?
Danny Stephens
02/12/2022 — 5:12 pm
Had Denger’s concern been free windshield decals, why did he refuse to show his POA membership card which is the only authorized exception to the decal? Had he shown his membership card he would have entered without delay the same way that many others do on a daily basis. I don’t care if he is too cheap to pay $10 for a decal, he just needs to follow the rules as written and show his membership card.
LLOYD SHERMAN
02/12/2022 — 11:25 pm
Amen!
Kirk Denger
02/13/2022 — 9:27 am
Please show the rules as written that you are referring to?
Elizabeth H Berry
02/13/2022 — 1:49 pm
I think it quite funny that no comments have been made regarding the reason the original post was made. I am not supporting or denying what occurred was handled correctly. What I am saying is that there is a fox in with those chickens. Where was Ms. Wallace when Mr, Denger was stopped at the entrance. In line to enter? The car behind, the car behind? Where did her information come from? Was it first hand or hearsay? Don’t attack these questions as meaningless. Mr. Denger was defending his actions, like it or not. The bigger question is the reason behind the original question. My guess that hearsay is the answer. Is there a daughter/father connection? Who would want Mr. Denger to fail at his attempt to get on the board? Is Politics involved? My view of the hen house…