By Cheryl Dowden, February 15, 2020
On February 10, 2020, the Recreation Committee held a work session meeting, which the public was permitted to attend.
The purpose of this meeting was to address the July 4th Balboa Beach issues and possible solutions. In addition to other issues, there was overcrowding on July 4, 2019. It is anticipated some of the same issues could reoccur this year as the 4th will be on a Saturday.
Committee members present for the meeting were: Chairperson, Donna Aylward; Vice-Chair, Holly Harck; Mary McNamer; Tom Paprocki; Tammy McCullough; Don Langston and Jim Betts.
Secretary, Serena Gonzales participated by telephone conference.
Additionally sitting at the table, were Nancy Luehring, Board Liaison; Stacy Hoover, Director of Recreation; Jamie Caperton, Chief Member Experience Officer.
Committee member Larry Wilson was absent.
Chief Ricky Middleton was a special guest who was brought in to explain what the Police Department can and can’t enforce.
The conversation continued from last month
At last month’s Recreation Committee meeting, there was a discussion regarding Balboa Beach and how to avoid some of the issues that occurred on the last 4th of July.
Stacy Hoover, said, “The question came up. ‘Can we limit the use of amenities?'”
There must be reasonable suspicion before the police can be involved
Chief Middleton said that there must be reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed in order for him to become involved.
Middleton asked, “So my question is, you can make all the rules that you want, but that may not rise to the level of a law enforcement issue. So how do you enforce your own rules?… I cannot make an unlawful arrest.”
The allowance of vehicles parked in the area would be a fire code issue. The state police are in charge of enforcing fire code issues. Middleton was not aware of any occupancy code for open-air events.
POA documents which help clarify the use of common property
Hoover stated she wanted to go through some of the POA documents.
Hoover explained, “According to the Declaration the common property is ‘any improvement owned by the Association’, which includes the Balboa Beach.”
“The Declaration says that if you own property in HSV, you are a member. Your name must be on the deed,” the Director of Recreation specified.
Hoover explained that you can assign your privileges which provides membership rights to the assignee.
The Declaration does define who is considered to be a “guest and what are guests allowed to do.”
Hoover said, “The Declaration provides for a member’s access to common property.”
The Bylaws define the common properties. These include roads, streets, lakes, golf courses, permanent parks, permanent recreational spots, water systems and sewer systems.
The Bylaws also define who has the right to the enjoyment of the beach, stating, “any member shall be entitled to the use and the enjoyment of the common property and the facilities as provided in Article 8 of the Declarations.’
Furthermore, “The Directors shall make such rules from time to time and shall be relative to the use of common property and facilities by guests of members.”
Under POA Policies, “The properties and facilities of the association are maintained for the use, benefit, and enjoyment of members and their guests.
The General Rules and Regulations say non-member amenity users must:
- Register at the office or check-in area of the facility or with an on-site representative of the Department,
- Present their proper identification, and
- Pay the user fee if applicable.
HSVPOA Beach Rules
The beach rules are as follows:
- No lifeguards – swim at your own risk,
- No pets,
- No profanity,
- No smoking,
- No glass containers,
- No loud music,
- Do not leave your children unattended,
- Stay within the buoy area,
- Beach closes at sundown, and
- Beach patrol staff has authority.
Renters and non-property owner staff
The POA documents do not mention renters and their children. Hoover said, “They are not excluded and they are not allowed”… “There are renters who have been assigned the privileges to the property that they are renting.” These renters can then use the amenities at member rates.
Hoover went on to say, “Employee membership rights are laid out in both policy and in the personnel manual and those are enjoyment rights for the employee.”
Donna Aylward said she wanted to give as many residents access to the beach as possible.
Can a charge for the beaches be instituted or a charge for a special event? Hoover stated we have charged for special events in the past.
Jamie Caperton offers possible solution
Jamie Caperton said she has planned events for 40 years and one of the things that can be done is to band the attendees. First, it must be determined how many people will be allowed on the beach. Caperton said, “Members can come by [the POA Administrative Office] and get up to the number of members they have listed [for free].”… Members will also be able to buy a certain number of guest bands.
Tents at the beach on July 4
Caperton said there should be a designated tent area and tents should only be allowed in this area. The tents should not be upfront because they will block the view of people sitting behind the tents. The tent space should also be purchased in advance. The number of tents should be limited.
The Chief said, “From a legalistic side, you are going to have to have a barrier [for tents].”
Board Liaison to the Recreation Committee, Nancy Luehring said there may be an enforcement issue because they are talking about rules and not law.
Chief Middleton recommended that Stacy Hoover check with the POA attorneys before they do anything.
It is a discussion point as to whether the POA could limit gate access to the Village on July 4. Possibly, If there is not a pass issued at the gate, then that party is not allowed entrance.
How much authority does the Beach Patrol have?
Beach Patrol is part of the Compliance Department. If the Beach Patrol observes illegal acts, then they need to contact the Police Department.
If members break a rule, their privileges may be suspended for 30 days. The members who live outside of HSV, are not heavily affected by this.
Donna Aylward said the next steps will be:
- Looking at fire safety laws, and determining the beach capacity, and
- Looking at Ms. Caperton’s plan and determining if and how this might work.
It was determined that a sub-committee is needed and will consist of three or four members.
***
Click here to view the Balboa Beach discussion
***
The Recreation Committee held its regular monthly meeting immediately after the Balboa Beach discussion.
Click here to view the regular Recreation Committee Meeting (February 10, 2020)
The Recreation Committee members are our friends and neighbors who work diligently to find solutions for many recreational issues in the Village. Much thanks to each and everyone one of them for their dedication and tireless service to the community.
As always, the ideas from this committee are not set in stone. The Recreation Committee does not set policy and can only research, discuss and recommend solutions.
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By Cheryl Dowden, February 15, 2020
Robert Busse
02/15/2020 — 7:06 pm
It strikes me as being a little strange that our Police Chief sounds extremely reluctant to enforce the rules, public safety, good orderly conduct and crowd control in HSV. Chief Middleton said that “there must be reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed in order for him to become involved”. That is a cop out coming from someone whose sole reason for existence is to protect citizens and insure a safe and lawful environment.
I don’t think Villagers are wanting or expecting that a bunch of folks, that are not obeying our rules, policies, etc., are to be arrested, hand-cuffed, and hauled off to jail. All we are looking for is reasonable public order and the rules we all have to abide by be maintained. The PRESCENSE of the Police will go a gigantic way in keeping order on the beach. If tent areas are established, a few signs be put up, and the Beach Patrol informing beach goers of some of the easily violated rules, there should be no serious problems. If patrons get unruly or break the rules after being warned and told to stop, they can told to leave. If things get out of hand they can be arrested for Disturbing the Peace or Disorderly Conduct. Any time there is a extraordinary large congregation of people, unsupervised, with children present, and alcohol present, the police have a DUTY to be present to insure decorum.
If it is felt necessary, by the BOD and CEO, to have four police personnel present at the HSV monthly Board meeting, to watch over, at most 50 -75 old folks, many who have difficulty seeing, hearing, and/or moving about normally, it seems like a no-brainer for the Leadership and the Police Chief to insist that there be reasonable police presence at the 4th of July events at the Marina and Balboa Beach. Please, Chief and Leaders do what common sense says is the right thing to do. It does’nt take Rocket Science or Quantum Physics to figure it out.
Jon Noblett
02/16/2020 — 7:02 am
He is not saying that they will not be there, it also doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that they always have heavy presence at the event, they call in practically every off duty officer to work the event. And have done so for years. They are officers and legally have to abide by laws, not whatever rules and regulations we come up with.
Robert Busse
02/16/2020 — 1:32 pm
John Noblett, I do not like to say negative things about law enforcement anywhere. I have the utmost respect for them and value their service.
But it just strikes me as improper that our Chief, at the beginning of issues that involve law enforcement, seems to come out with initial statements of what the police can not or are not able to do. In other words, immediately he lets everyone know what he and his officers will not or can not handle.
Instead of agreeing that a problem exists and telling the public that they will do everything they can to impact or solve the problem, he starts out with a don’t expect much out of law enforcement because our hands are tied message.
That is the way the “tail gating past card gates” issue was handled and now this 4th of July issue. I just do not think the “we can’t really help the situation” comments and seemingly reluctant attitude is the right way to deal with some of our recent issues.
But again, I respect our officers and admit that they many times have a very difficult job and/or decisions to make. I for one appreciate them.
C R I M I N A L T R E S P A S S
02/16/2020 — 5:42 pm
Noblett,
There is nothing unlawful about preventing trespassing or in requiring trespassers to leave.
Linda
02/17/2020 — 7:07 pm
Good !
Carl
02/15/2020 — 8:35 pm
Why is almost the first thing all these rules makers want to do is figure out how to charge anyone to have a good time.Like Bob says lets use a little common sense.
INDEPENDENCE day
02/16/2020 — 12:24 am
Well said, Busse. Since it is private property, anyone not following rules set by the POA may be required to vacate the property. Wrist band passes are a way to identify trespassers. A free wrist band pass for each POA employee, resident &/or owner would be fair. IF there is plenty of excess capacity, it would also be fair to charge for guest passes, but not unless there is more than enough capacity for every resident to attend.
Cheryl, Thank you so much for attending this meeting and reporting about it. I was disappointed to see nothing about it in the Voice and then again nothing in the Digest. You are the Village sweetheart!
Julie
02/16/2020 — 10:14 am
The Voice quit reporting years ago.
Jerry
02/16/2020 — 5:08 am
Robert is absolutely correct. Our “police” force spends more time telling us what it can’t do than actually policing.
The only way you can interpret the “chiefs” comments is to say we are not a gated community any longer. Simple as that. He says anyone can be here at anytime without any reason.
Earlier 4th of July fiascos are the main reason we sold our lovely home at a big loss and moved out. We were sickened by the vendors on the beach, all the “guests” who overran the place, and the dozens and dozens of boaters who were not renters or guests clogging the lake and ruining the whole event.
We lived in HSV for 10 years and the first 5 were great. Then came the lax enforcement of our gates and the misguided notion from on top that we should just let everyone in so they can see how great the place is. I have a clue for the people who implemented this idiotic notion. None of the gate crashers from any of our 4th of July celebrations has ever bought a house or a lot here. Why would they?? They just come in on false pretenses or phony pretenses or the tailgate on in. They know that no one will ever question them, check their status, or do anything else to spoil their stay. We have no functioning lake patrol either, so once they launch they are free to do whatever they wish.
Remember the great idea to have the trampoline? Great until someone drowned.
Now tents? Why? By allowing tents we are just encouraging more non-stakeholders to use the amenities that property owners pay for.
Do any of these tireless committee members ever actually attend the 4th of July event at Balboa? I suspect not. If they did they would be as appalled as we were.
We left 4 years ago this month. Do we miss our friends? Sure. Do we miss the absolute and total mess that is now HSV? Not for a minute.
Kilroy
02/16/2020 — 7:29 am
Thank you Busse, well stated. And Jerry, thank you for your continued interest in the community. It really says a lot about what this community WAS (and can be again) until corporate took over. There is still a great affection for this place when we STILL have people from afar concerned about our course. The Lemlers, the Krameks, Jerry, et al.
And Yes!!
Cheryl Dowden is out sweetheart! Consider this my belated Valentine, Cheryl.
Phil Lemler
02/16/2020 — 7:31 am
Strict gate enforcement … bring back the volunteers … arm bands (REALLY?) and such tactics will only be more expensive, more cumbersome and confusing … plus, if you cannot enforce the rules now … adding more rules does not solve the problem. Ms. Luehring stated it well.
Quit wasting time and money …. enforce the gates!
Andy Kramek
02/16/2020 — 9:09 am
Exactly right, Phil. The simplest solution is usually the best. However, the snag is that the “Management” simply does not want to enforce the gates. It is exactly counter to what they are trying to do and so it cannot happen until the Board takes action to require that it be done. The Board’s job is to set the policies that the management will implement so, in the end, the responsibility lies with the Board.
How can you enforce the gates when anyone who gains access to the village can leave by any of the automated gates without needing to use a card or other form of ID?
That change alone made gate enforcement a joke since there is not now, and never has been, any serious effort to prevent a vehicle from driving in through either of the manned gates. The incidence of ‘gate running’ has, I am quite sure, increased significantly since the card gates allowed unrestricted exit.
Kilroy
02/16/2020 — 8:05 am
Thank you Busse, well stated. And Jerry, thank you for your continued interest in the Village. It really says a lot about what this community WAS (and can be again) until corporate took over. There is still a great affection for this place when there are STILL have people from afar that are concerned about our course. The Lemlers, the Krameks, Jerry, et al.
And Yes!!
Cheryl Dowden is our sweetheart! Consider this my belated Valentine, Cheryl.
LTD has our vote.
Andy Kramek
02/16/2020 — 9:00 am
Well, we still own property in the Village so of course we are concerned about the course. Just because we no longer live in the village doesn’t mean that we have no interest in it.
Dewayne Cox
02/16/2020 — 8:44 am
If the “visitors” arent property owners, guests of property owners, renters, ect, then are that not trespassing onto private property?
You can and should be arrested and or at least removed from the property.
Linda
02/17/2020 — 7:09 pm
Trespassers? Yes!
Carl Fulmer
02/16/2020 — 9:15 am
The problem last year was caused by open gates. If you close the gates this year you are going to have a problem at the GATES. How would like to be the gate guard on that day.
Linda
02/17/2020 — 7:09 pm
I will happily do it…gate duty.
Minn Daly
02/16/2020 — 9:21 am
Thank you Cheryl for this info! Ricky Milliton is a good Chief of police & his staff is as well. This is a simple solution, Just enforce the gates! Why do we need a committee for that. Minn Daly
Moe
02/16/2020 — 10:35 am
I think we could all agree that any “gated” community that needs a committee and then a sub-committee to figure out how to keep unwelcome and unwanted outsiders from ruining their 4th of July celebration is already finished.
Sad but true.
Rosanne Hitch
02/16/2020 — 2:33 pm
We need better gate enforcement at all times, especially during the summer holiday season! That is what we PAY that security company for!!
Tom Blakeman
02/16/2020 — 10:01 pm
The police chief enforces laws. If the fools running the Village let anyone and everyone in who wants to come in then they are not breaking any laws so there is nothing to enforce.
Similarly, the police chief works for our CEO and I’m sure he values his job. So if our management doesn’t want secure gates, why should he step up and try to do so? It’s not like we elected him like we might elect a county sheriff.
Then we have our Directors which we do elect. Obviously the majority of the ones we have now don’t care about this mess or it all would have been solved long ago. After all, supposedly they give the orders to the CEO. Or do they?
Moe
02/17/2020 — 7:54 am
This whole thing is ridiculous. Why should total strangers who don’t contribute in any way be able to come in anytime and use the amenities we all pay for???
Far bigger problem than just the 4th of July…this happens every single day…we are no longer a gated community and have not been for quite some time.
This needs to change – if not, HSV is lost.
Hope LTD all have this on the to-do list. It has to be rectified.
Sadly, only getting worse.
I can fully understand why some have left HSV because of the complete breakdown of our gate system and our “security”.
This should be a top priority for the new board…we have to regain control of HSV before it is lost forever.
It is hard to imagine a worse situation that what we have now. We are gateless for all practical purposes…if you don’t believe that you are simply ignoring the harsh reality of the situation.
Why do we even have a fireworks display if our own residents can’t enjoy it without fighting crowds of outsiders??
The madness needs to end.
But will it??? That is the single most important issue.
So far I am not feeling too good about the outcome.
But I shall not give up believing in LTD to win and get to work.
ASAP.
Please.
Andy Kramek
02/17/2020 — 8:40 am
Moe, you are exactly right. “Management” have said over and over again that the gates will “not come down”. What they don’t say is that there is no need to have the gates “come down” since over the past few years they have removed all of the security that previously existed:
First, the management of the gates was outsourced. It was not entirely clear at the time why that was a good idea and I have still, to this day, seen no rational explanation of why that was done. Did it really save money? Did it improve our security? Can’t say about cost, but for sure there has been no improvement in security.
The next change was the removal of the necessity to use a resident’s card to exit an unmanned gate. Again, it was not clear how that helped to maintain, let alone improve, the security of us all. Prior to that, anyone who entered without stopping had, at least, got to go back out through a manned gate. Not sure that it really helped much, but at least it fostered the illusion of security.
The third change was that the delay timing on the unmanned gates was extended. This, reportedly, was done so that vehicles with trailers could use the unmanned gates. Unfortunately, the gates are not smart enough to detect whether what is entering is a vehicle pulling a trailer, or just a second vehicle entering on the first one’s card.
So the situation is what we now see, there is no longer any need to risk being stopped at a manned gate, just tuck in behind a legal resident, enter the village at will, go wherever you want and leave whenever you want.
Linda
02/17/2020 — 7:10 pm
Agreed!
Tom Blakeman
02/18/2020 — 12:23 pm
Drain the swamp. Soon.
Beverly M
02/18/2020 — 5:25 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with Moe.
“WHY do we even have a fireworks display if our own residents can’t enjoy it without fighting crowds of outsiders?”
How about closing the gates and no on gets in if they aren’t invited by resident. Homeowner gets a set number of invites ( names left at gate—if you’re not on the list—-sorry Felicia-you don’t get access. Don’t allow gate runners. HSV is our home…we pay to live here…we pay to enjoy the amenities.. You, the outsider do not contribute to this celebration….we do!
Sure, it will cause a lot of work/more manpower…but I bet we the homeowner get to enjoy the fireworks without stumbling over people and utter chaos.
Moe
02/19/2020 — 6:08 am
Sadly your reasonable suggestion will never be implemented. “ceo” and board want open gates so that is what we have.
Time for a change.