POA Accused of Nickel and Diming Villagers
At the February 16, 2022 Board Meeting, Vice-chair, Tucker Omohundro, proposed that Staff look at various fees. This was a “New Business” discussion item and no votes were taken on this matter.
Omohundro said he monitors social media and pays attention to a lot of things. Omohundro stated, “we have fees for different things in the Village and we get accused of nickel and diming. I actually think we do a little of that and I’d really like to eliminate that. I am going to ask Staff, with the Board’s support, to look into a few of these things. I am going to hit on a few of them.”
Are All Permits Necessary?
Continuing, Omohundro said, “We charge for example through our permitting and inspections department to change out a water heater. Fortunately, or unfortunately, people will probably go pay to change out a water heater. Me, personally, I won’t do it. I’ll just change the water heater. But a lot of people do go by this. There is a reasoning behind this. There is code to how a water heater is installed. But there is code to just about everything in your house, the way it’s installed. So is your range. But do we get a permit to change a range? Sometimes you just have to maybe let people do what they need to do. There is a code to how you install a receptacle, but do you get a permit to change out a receptacle in your house? I don’t. Not many people would and we don’t ask you to. I am not saying that we should or we shouldn’t. I am just giving you thoughts about it. Painting garage doors and front doors even brought Joanie and me to another point, even painting your own house. We have restrictions on what colors. We have guidelines and all that, yes. But do we really want to charge you if you come down and show the color? You do need to go through the process so we don’t have to catch you painting your door purple if it doesn’t look good in the neighborhood. But why should we have to pay for that? That’s just my thought.
Golf Cart Stickers
Omohundro said, “another thing came up, golf cart stickers…Apparently, and I don’t know if it is a policy or not, but apparently, we’re changing for a golf cart sticker if you run around your back yard with it or in your neighborhood.”
“Golf cart stickers were originally so you could actually use it on the golf course and you actually got a discount for doing so and you just paid a trail fee. We also offer a fee of $600, around that, a year. You pay that and you pay nothing when you use your golf cart on the golf courses. I actually bought that this year and I think it is a great deal. But I promise you, why do I need a sticker to ride around my shop? I don’t think that was ever the intent, but I think it did get to be the intent. And that’s just, again, Tucker’s opinion, wrong,” explained Omohundro.
Pet Tags
Do you really want to charge me for my cats? It ain’t happening. I’m not going to go and get a tag for my cats that never leave the house.”
I think Charlie [Brown] eliminated some of that or we talked about it, Pet tags, Charlie’s own reason for having a pet tag is because he is in charge of Animal Control. If they see a dog out on the street, the tag will tell him where to take it instead of taking it to the Animal Shelter. That is a great thing, but why can’t you just put any kind of tag on there? Omohundro said we don’t require proof of vaccinations.” We just charge people $18 a year to register their dog.
New Car
When you buy a new car, the POA does not let Property Owners turn in their old window sticker for a new one without paying another $10 fee.
Staff to Look at Fees
Omohundro said he wants GM Hale and the Staff to look at these fees.
Hale said, “this came up a few weeks ago and we are going to take all of these and I’ll bring them back to the Board. But not only these ticky-tack, really?” There is an administration cost of managing and keeping track of these things. There is an upside to looking at how much revenue is being brought in on something like this. Is it worth the time and energy? Does it make any logical sense in what we are doing?” The GM said they have already started making a list to bring back to the Board to determine what kind of adjustments need to be made.
Vehicle Stickers are for Convenience
You are not required to have a sticker on your car. You show your ID to get in…, explained Hale.
Omohundro said that car stickers generate a lot of revenue. The companies that work in the Village must buy a sticker if they don’t want to have someone call them in by phone. It is convenient for them. We make approximately $400,000 a year because you guys and me included, go buy a sticker for our convenience. We are not required. No one has to buy the stickers to get inside the gates. Not even workers. It is about convenience.
Kelly said, “it is a revenue generator, but you are not required. It is a convenience for people that choose to put them on their cars. I agree with you, Tucker. It helps me get in and out and doesn’t put a strain on our guards…”
Coreena Fetterhoff, the Controller, said there is a cost associated with purchasing all of those stickers. It is not all profit.
Cheryl Dowden, HSV People, February 20, 2022
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David Ellison
02/20/2022 — 2:24 pm
Thank You Tucker. Fee’d to death! Not a word I know but can I charge a fee for its creation? I asked a couple of times about how much revenue was created from sell of “convenience stickers.” I never got an answer. So how was the new $400K in revenue spent?; I asked this on two previous comments but no answer.
Carolyn Haney
02/20/2022 — 2:53 pm
I think you are getting carried away with all the fees. First you raise the monthly fee ( it has tripled in the 8 years I have been here. Now my water bill has gone up. When will it stop. There are more people moving in so POA fees will naturally increase.
Vicki Walston
02/20/2022 — 3:51 pm
There are also many moving out. Population has stayed around 14-15k since we have been property owners- 2002. As fees increase and the number of fees increase, it limits those who can afford to remain. When we used to vacation here, every time we went to use an “amenity” someone had their hand out, ex Coronado Center. I used the exact term “buckle and dining”. Thought that’s what my POA dues covered. Our POA dues then were $27 per month – hard to complain. But now, we have to make up for poor decision making. Since we didn’t live here, we had no idea what was going on here. We moved here during the Nalley fiasco. OMG! Had no idea. Probably would not have moved here.
Patricia Howard
02/20/2022 — 3:02 pm
. I have four adult size kayaks, one child size kayak, and one child size paddle board. Each one required a permit. (I believe it was 17.50 each). And, really there is only one that is on the water regularly (the one that *I use). This is a prime example of nickel and diming the Property Owners.
Andrew Jones Jr
02/20/2022 — 3:46 pm
Tucker, thank you for your common sense thanking. Vehicle stickers, golf cart stickers, replacing anything in the house never made sense to me either. Again thank you for your common sense.
Andrew Jones Jr
02/20/2022 — 6:03 pm
Common sense thinking
Vicki Walston
02/20/2022 — 3:54 pm
Dang spell check – nickel and diming!! Not buckle and dining!!!
Walter Chance
02/20/2022 — 4:12 pm
Agreed. Glad to see all these fees being discussed. If your water heater goes out, like ours did a couple years ago. The last thing I am thinking about is a permit. Cold showers after one day and I put it in myself. I didn’t even know a permit was required? Thanks Tucker for getting this on the table.
Danny Stephens
02/20/2022 — 5:50 pm
I don’t mind paying for window stickers but totally disagree that if you replace one vehicle with another during the year you pay for an additional sticker. If your total number of vehicles doesn’t increase, you should get the replacement sticker free. Enough profit was made off the original sticker to provide a free replacement sticker.
Laura Barbeau
02/20/2022 — 10:25 pm
Agree
Sue Viecelli
02/20/2022 — 6:10 pm
Just my opinion, but I think if we are paying $90 a month per improved property, that we should get car stickers for free, or at cost. Seems like the right thing to do. We used to get two stickers per homeowner. Thank you for your consideration.
Tom Blakeman
02/20/2022 — 6:47 pm
It is exactly true that the many ( almost all) of the fees are excessive and uncalled for. They are also extremely regressive, just like sales taxes – they only harm the less-dollar-flush of the population. The rich have no clue. Pocket change to them. Mostly these fees came about due to negligence and failure of boards and management to spend wisely and act with appropriate fiscal responsibility for several decades. Now, these fees favor the million dollar homeowners at the expense of the everyday homeowner and the family or the retired resident on a fixed income.
But! There are bigger fish to fry here as well. Examples:
1. There is simply no reason why our utility systems should be geared for making a “profit”. But that is exactly where we are. In fact, it is one of the only actual “revenue” generating categories we have. Water and sewer services should only recoup their actual costs. But, they are viewed as a profit center. BTW, this all started with a $10MM water plant capacity upgrade, which we didn’t actually need, and was followed by a Nalley and compliant led board who allowed it.
2. Why can a golf cart trailer be parked on any lot and it is OK? Or, a boat on trailer be parked in a carport (in plain view) – with multiple cars all over the driveway – and it is OK. But, any other resident CANNOT park his boat or boat trailer anywhere on his property.? Why does this make any sense? The cop-out excuse is the Declarations. But I call bullshit! If a board can impose a “buy-in fee then they could fix this too, if they wanted to. How many hundreds or thousands of dollars does this cost boat owning property owners every year, not to mention their inconvenience, to have to pay for off site storage? Or be penalized into not having a boat at all?
3. Why should I, because I’m retired, and have very expensive insurance which gives me Silver Sneakers, get to have access to the Fitness Center for “free”, even if I use it only once or NO times per month? But, any other average homeowner (or his family) has to pay a huge fee to use the amenity? I love it – works for me – best amenity in The Whole Village – but the concept makes no sense. BTW, Silver Sneakers only pays about $3.00 per visit of the ‘member’. And, the non-insurance member (property owner) pays something like $10.00. Travesty!
4. Worst of all, is the newly imposed credit card fee! Pay for almost anything else in this country and EVERYBODY just swipes a card – no added fee! In fact, pay for a round of golf here in HSV – as an outsider, guest or property owner – and there is no added fee. But, if you try to pay your assessments or annual fees (for that Fitness Center for example) with a card – Bingo! Now POA soaks you with a fat fee. Just plain stupid.
5. And. . . Wait for it. . . Why no free outdoor pool for all?
Thanks Tucker, for beginning to see the light. Hopefully some others will too.
Kathy Henderson Oram
02/20/2022 — 7:05 pm
I think permit fees are way too high. The Compliance people are way over-bearing. We don’t need little cars running around trying to catch people. Do they have an amount of people they need to turn in daily to Charlie Brown in order to keep their jobs? Why can’t we be given copies of the items they have in folders on us? We didn’t have any idea such folders existed!
Tom Blakeman
02/21/2022 — 9:22 am
Compliance department should not exist. There should be a citizen patrol who volunteer to go around periodically and investigate possible violations. That’s what other communities do.
David Wilson
02/20/2022 — 7:34 pm
Fees are a BIG revenue stream for the POA. We need MORE.
We have a private cart fee for golf courses. Why not a WALKING fee
for our trails; and require the walking trail users to purchase a
human tag (like a pet tag) to wear around their necks in case they
get lost while walking the trails.
We should also have a PEDESTRIAN fee for people walking the village
streets; with the human tag requrement too.
We should have a MINIMUM fee, called a FEE FEE (not to be confused
with the populal French name for female poodles), just because.
There was a national TEA Party (Taxed Enough Already) a few years ago.
I’m thinking of starting an HSV party called the FLEA Party (Fee Levyed
Enough Already).
Just a few of my thoughts about FEES.
Mark Oliver
02/21/2022 — 4:46 am
Submissions such as this shall now be subject to the new Sarcastic Humor Internet Transmission fee which will be accompanied by a brown sticker. A task force, committee, sub-committee and 132 page manual have been created to assist with identifying and regulating all current and future Sarcastic Humor Internet Transmissions.
Mrs Katherine Miller
02/22/2022 — 9:45 pm
L🚫L‼️
Frank Shears aka Bubba McGillicuty
02/21/2022 — 8:50 am
Wow… It’s about time we looked into the “fees” the POA collects or they will soon be charging us for the leaves dropped in our forest.
Charging us a fee to replace a defective water heater in our homes? Say WHAT?!?!? I call BS on this along with several other fees being charged by the POA. It sounds like fees left over from the Nalley fiasco to pay for her “business trips”. Charging a fee to pay for what is essentially a Pet License is ridiculous.
Repairing or replacing home appliances and systems can easily be identified as emergency repairs such as defective water heaters, house heaters, air conditioning systems, stoves, and many others is more than just inconvenient. There is no need to delay the repairs waiting for approval of a permit to do the repairs. The craftsmen who do these repairs/replacements for us are well aware of the county and State zoning laws and requirements.
We need to get rid of these so called “fees”. I don’t always agree with Tucker, but I sure do agree with him this time. THANK YOU POA BOARD. I really like what I see and hear coming out of the Board since the Nalley era. Keep up the good work.
Scott Nalley
02/22/2022 — 6:11 am
Frank means the era where car stickers were free and everything from golf to assessments was cheaper. He needs a new obsession and better material. Sounds more like a sales pitch for the special assessment, rather than small ball issues like water heaters.
Shirley Claypool
02/21/2022 — 10:04 am
1. I have a few comments, one being the increase in POA fee which came at a very difficult time with Covid issues affecting everyone’s lives in so many ways, financial being at the top of the list. Rumor had it prior to the vote, that if it wasn’t approved the POA would just increase the water bill to cover it, however it was approved and now I see the water bill has increased anyway. This is a great example of nickles and dimes. 2. The most current brochure about amenities still lists cats as having to be registered at a fee of $12, although from the comments it appears some pay a fee and some say a fee is not required. It makes me wonder why the updates seem to be incorrect. and 3. The library fee increased last year to $20 a year from $9 a year for the entire time I have lived here, 6+ years. Why a double increase to use the library facilities in the Village? I have gone to the public library in Hot Spgs ever since that increase, going into my second year of doing so and it is not always convenient. The library in HSV was a pleasurable experience for me as I LIVE HERE. Reasoning? None given that I have seen.
Susan Posner
02/21/2022 — 10:10 am
Non profit not for profit organization 503c3. Thanks Tucker for your care, loyalty and good faith on this. Decal purchase orders what money is used to begin? I can get custom car decal similar at car stickers.com for 75cents a decal that’s retail and they offer wholesale and bulk cheaper. There’s a quick tag machine at Walmart and Petco engrave all info for @$8 or less yourself for pet.
Keith V. Hall
02/21/2022 — 10:43 am
I played the water heater game this past September.
Having to replace a ten year old water heater, I hired a local and highly recommended company with licensed and bonded employees. They performed the work and provided me with documentation stating guarantees that the work was performed to current standard. Thus I have legal recourse in the event of future failure.
I then paid $60 to the POA for an unknown employee simply said to be an expert to spend sixty seconds inspecting the water heater’s installation. There was of course no documentation of his supposed quality control; no certificate and no sign-off of some locally generated form showing results of the $60 inspection. Thus I have no legal recourse with the inspector or the POA should the unit fail.
What then was the $60 fee for? The right to maintain my home?
And the best part of this tale is that I wouldn’t have even known about the $60 POA fee had not the licensed and bonded company informed me that they’re required to report the installation to the POA. It continues to appear to me that professionalism come from the outside.
Dennis Coffin
02/22/2022 — 12:04 pm
I really appreciate you taking the time to assess what is needed and what are nuisances. The window stickers are excellent at a cost of less than 3 cents a day.
HSVP C
02/23/2022 — 1:21 pm
Please comment using your first and last name. It is the policy of this website that omments without a full name will not be approved. Thank you.
Doug murray
02/23/2022 — 3:29 pm
I believe the fee for using a credit card for monthly utilities is not only a burden for poa staff as well as inconvenient to members. To process a check, probably costs more than the 3 percent fee And delays receipt of funds by the poa. Pay by credit card is via computer and requires little staff processing and provides instant cash to the poa.
I know that some businesses have started charging fees for credit cards. Since I do not carry cash, I will not do business with those.