At what cost are we saving money?
Is the safety of the community in jeopardy because the HSVPOA Fire Department is compromised? We hope there isn’t a fire today (or any day).
This article is based off a conversation we had and also our own research. We have no reason not to believe the following as facts.
FACT: Hot Springs Village has a total of 4 fire stations
- Balboa
- Coronado
- Desoto
- Cortez
FACT: At any given time, each station is staffed with a tiny staff of 1 to 3 firefighters on call
Each Hot Springs Village fire station is staffed with only one firefighter at a time, with one exception. This exception is the Cortez fire station, which has three personnel on staff, the chief, lieutenant and a firefighter. HSV Fire Department has a total of 19 paid firefighters, plus the chief.
Hot Springs Village Fire Department has a total of 4 front-line pumper apparatus (one being the new fire truck), Truck 51 (a rescue truck) and a backup pumper truck.
FACT: NFPA while not law sets the industry standards
“So what’s the big deal if this standard and other standards are not laws or regulations that can be enforced? National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) standards tend to be viewed as accepted industry standards. That means that if there is litigation, these standards will be held as the baseline against which to measure. So an expert witness testifying in a lawsuit against a volunteer department for negligence resulting in the loss of life or property would probably cite NFPA 1720 as the standard for organization and operations for a volunteer department. Although other experts can argue that it is a written standard not necessarily reflecting standard practices, a lot more work has to be done to make that argument.” NFPA 1720
FACT: NFPA recommends at least 3 firefighters per truck per station per shift
NFPA 1710 recommends at least three firefighters per apparatus (truck) to be on call per shift at each fire station. It was a bit murky on what the NFPA 1720 staffing recommendations are. NFPA 1710 sets the standards for career fire departments and NFPA 1720 sets the standards for volunteer fire departments and combination fire departments. Combination fire departments are those which utilize both career employees and volunteers. While Hot Springs Village Fire Department uses mostly career firefighters, there are some volunteers.
In Hot Springs Village, volunteers may respond to calls, however, response turn out is usually very minimal. There are 12 total volunteer firefighters, but only 6 of them are active. In other words, we appreciate the volunteers, but they are not always available for the calls.
There is a problem all over the state with low volunteerism. The people that used to be the volunteers are getting older and many of the younger folks are not stepping up. We do not know why this is and are not making a judgment.
FACT: Inadequate staffing of fire departments is a serious issue
The following quotation addresses the serious issue of inadequate staffing of fire departments.
*“Because of the nature of our work, we can’t safely operate without a certain number of personnel. In other words, to send us to a fire with inadequate staffing would be irresponsible at best; at worst, deadly.“
“In this article, we’ll highlight three basic facts regarding staffing:
- The job of firefighting requires firefighters. Hoselines won’t deploy themselves, and there’s no firefighting robot we’re currently aware of that can function at or above a human firefighter’s level.
- Time affects life. By reducing the amount of time it takes to perform foreground tasks—specifically, deploying a hoseline—the better the outcome for the victim and the firefighters.
- Time directly correlates to the number of firefighters available. The more firefighters on the fireground, the less time it takes to complete a task.”
“These points should be fairly obvious and familiar, in part because of two documents: NFPA 1710: Standard for the Organization and Deployment of Fire Suppression Operations, Emergency Medical Operations and Special Operations to the Public by Career Fire Departments (2010 ed.)…” Click here to read the entire article.
*“Engine Company Staffing & NFPA 1710/NIST Research”
FACT: HSV Fire department is currently short staffed
Recently, a Coronado station firefighter was injured and hospitalized while off duty, so the rest of the paid firemen were covering the injured firefighter’s shifts. He still has not been able to return to work and we do not know when he is expected to return. A second Coronado firefighter also was injured and is on sick leave. In other words, the already minimal staff is down by two firefighters.
POA management is no longer allowing coverage for the shifts of the two firefighters off of work for illness/injury and has implemented the policy that the Coronado fire station be shut down entirely, during the shifts these ill/injured firefighters were supposed to work.
FACT: No one is on staff at Coronado fire station today
Therefore, starting today, Wednesday, July 10th, Coronado fire station will not be manned with any firefighter during the shifts the injured firefighter was scheduled, but cannot work due to injury. In the unfortunate event of a fire, firefighters will have to respond to that fire district from Cortez or Balboa stations.
FACT: Short staffed firefighters became dehydrated
It is documented in a Village Voice newspaper article written by Managing Editor, Jeff Meek, on June 11, 2019, that firemen had to be hooked up to IV fluids at the last structure fire from heat exhaustion due to minimum manpower. The firefighters already work under treacherous conditions and then when you add inadequate manpower to the mix, you are only asking for trouble. It takes adequate manpower to fight fires.
Quote from the Village Voice: ” Fire Chief Jason Miller said the call came in around 7:30 p.m. and his men did not return until 4:30 a.m.”
“He added that it was a very tough fire to extinguish, very hot and that 3 firefighters had to stop for a time to receive intravenous fluids on scene. “Then they went back to work,” Miller said.”
Additional FACTS
- Paid HSVPOA firefighters are only allowed to respond to confirmed structure fires while off duty (this means they cannot respond to first responder calls when the ambulances are busy or for car wrecks, etc.) Previously, the off-duty-fire fighters were allowed to respond to extra calls, if they thought there was a need.
- Although off-duty firefighters are still allowed to respond to structure fires, there is now a delay in their response. Previously when they were notified of a structure fire they would just automatically respond. Now they must wait until the on-duty firefighter is at the scene and confirms that there is a fire. Much valuable firefighting time is lost.
- At one point it was threatened to not pay firemen for working during the night, however, the chief fought it and that never went into effect. To require someone to be at work, even if they are sleeping, and to not pay them for this time is illegal. Even if not awake, it is a requirement that the employee man the station.
- Paid firemen may no longer train together with all three shifts (which used to happen frequently) unless approved by POA management. They are allowed very little training time, usually only once every few months. This lack of much-needed training was the time when the firefighters learned how to work with each other in the most efficient way possible.
- In the past, firemen were permitted to attend Sunday service at a church located within their district, if their shift was on a Sunday. They are no longer allowed to do this and may not attend church services within their district anymore while on duty.
A huge thank you to our first responders
Firefighters and police officers, both, work in very underpaid and under-appreciated professions, not to even mention the danger they face when performing rescues and fighting fires. Although not verified, it is rumored that our firefighters are paid in the range of $11 to $14 per hour – putting their lives on the line for a mere pittance. HSV firefighters are FABULOUS and will do anything to protect and serve. They need support from the members of this community so that safety can be maintained.
Note: Please do your own research on these issues and we would love to read your comments below. Thank you.
by Cheryl Dowden July 10, 2019
HSVP C
07/10/2019 — 9:07 am
We went to the station this morning and indeed, it is true. It was unmanned.
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 9:37 am
so with this article which by the way is very good How will this affect our insurance ratings plus what do you suggest to fix this problem ?
concerned person
07/10/2019 — 9:38 am
so with this article which by the way is very good How will this affect our insurance ratings plus what do you suggest to fix this problem ?
HSVP C
07/10/2019 — 11:37 am
The only way to fix this problem is to hire more firefighters.
Lewis Robinson
07/10/2019 — 9:39 am
so with this article which by the way is very good How will this affect our insurance ratings plus what do you suggest to fix this problem ?
HSVP C
07/14/2019 — 5:26 pm
Thank you, Lew. The very day of the release of this article, they decided to man the station, per Chief Miller.
Anonymous
07/17/2019 — 10:33 pm
He got his but chewed by Lesley.
Old
07/10/2019 — 11:23 am
Why only 12 volunteer fire fighters? I would guess if fire chief ask for more volunteers they would step up.
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 5:01 pm
Jessieville and fountain lake Volunteer fire Department has been short handed for YEARS… nobody is stepping up
HSVP C
07/10/2019 — 11:39 am
This email was sent to the Board Directors. Please consider sending them an email about this issue. Thank you.
Dear Board Directors,
Thank you for all the hard work you do for the community.
It has come to our attention that our Fire Department is woefully understaffed and that today, Coronado Fire Station is unmanned due to injuries of two firefighters. The CEO is unwilling to pay overtime to keep Coronado Fire Station open. We drove to this station this morning to find out if it was manned and it was not. While this station is not permanently closed, it is still not acceptable to have any closure. If our insurance companies get ahold of this information, all of our rates are going to skyrocket, not to mention, this puts property owners at risk in the event of a fire.
If something catastrophic happens, HSVPOA could be held liable. Do we really want to risk the loss of property and life?
When our assessments are used for things like New Urbanism trips and a top-heavy team of department heads instead of being used to cover the basic necessities such as adequate fire protection, we cannot stand quietly by. In addition, we are using assessment fees to fund Village Homes and Land and also getting ready to break ground for an ill-timed swimming pool. There is much more wasteful spending, but I won’t go into all of it.
If HSVPOA’s financial position is so dire that we need to cut fire protection for property owners, something needs to change. Please do not allow Coronado Fire Station to be closed for any amount of time. It also appears the staffing of firefighters is woefully low and the same with police officers. Very bad decisions are being made for this community. Please don’t allow this to continue.
Thank you in advance for your assistance with the correction of this major issue.
Kind regards,
Cheryl Dowden
Hot Springs Village People
https://hotspringsvillagepeople.com/
Coleen Curtis
07/10/2019 — 11:41 am
Speaking of fireman in the village. Yesterday afternoon about 4 – 5 pm there was an explosion and fire at the Bee Hive. We all know that Cindi Erickson is co-owner of the Bee Hive. I was supposed to be there with a group of ladies, but I didn’t go.. Bee Hive has started serving burgers flamed at the table. Last evening the flaming burger exploded and started a fire. A lady was severely burned. Her clothes were burned off her body. I just wonder if we wouldn’t have bought the new ladder truck for a million plus, that money could be used to pay our firefighters. As far as I know the only time they’ve used this new truck was for a photo op with Leslie. They care flighted the burned lady to a hospital. I don’t know which one, but can’t help but think that the poor lady would have been better served if the village had enough firefighters
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 8:41 pm
This is really a very poor attack. Please consider the folks at Good Samaritan on the 3rd floor with a fire – do they jump? We had No Way to reach them until we got this ladder truck!
Get a grip, There’s plenty of room and time to complain about stuff in the Village, buying that truck is NOT one of them! Hopefully we never have to find out how many lives it saves!
Ron Hill
Anonymous
07/11/2019 — 1:37 pm
Mr. Anonymous, I made comments and YOU did the attacking. I have concerns about safety and efficiency of our firefighters and policemen. I’m not complaining, and if I decide to, you won’t be on my list of those I seek approval from. You go ahead and grip whatever you would like to grip.
Anonymous
07/13/2019 — 9:55 pm
The ladder truck was probably the best investment the poa has made in the recent past. It is a very necessary tool to help the already understaffed HSV fire department help protect us all!!!
Tom Williams
07/10/2019 — 1:16 pm
As a resident of HSV I am appalled at the regression that is now being done by our General Manager \ CEO . to distort our village . Her discussion making process is the most devastating thing that I have ever witnessed to our beautiful village . I have tried to be understanding , but I now see the light .
I have lived here 40yrs. Purchased my first property here in 1972 . I have seen the struggles and sacrifice the village has gone thru to have a beautiful place to live . I have not only had businesses here but I also helped in the progress of our Fire Dept. By working as a paid Fire Fighter and retairing from the POA . I say these things with experience of our Fire Dept.
Now that is out of the way allow me to address some issues . NFPA 1710 AND NIST. AS MENTIONED are guidelines . Every fire dept. Has standard operating procedures . We.here in HSV are very different from most any other Fire Dept.
The complexity of our environment is a challenging task in many forms , thus our efforts to protect and serve are hindered by our governing body ( including the BOD ) You see I can speak to these issues because I am no longer under the hand of being fired because I spoke up on these issues. .
Most people do not understand the first thing about being a FF. Nor do they understand the certification’s that are required plus the team work training that must take place not only for there safety but yours as well .
When I explain to other people on municipal departments they can not believe we here in HSV operate with such a minimal staff to cover such a large area with the challenges we face and not to minimum pay . you see I can go on and on or even write a book on this place , so I will cut thru the chase .
Bottom line folks we are dealing with an emergency that we must deal with NOW . we have a 4 alarm fire going on now with our BOD. and General Manager / CEO . If we stand by and allow them to continue down this road of destruction we WILL LOOSE OUR VILLAGE. as we know it . you will pay much higher rates on your house insurance , because the fire ratings of our dept. Will change due to the degression of our Fire Dept . this could be a major blow to people moving here as well home sales in the village .
Now folks this is only one issue and I have not even mentioned ambulance . our gates are our police dept. We have to wake up to this maddness before it’s to late .
Minn Daly
07/10/2019 — 3:04 pm
Mr. Williams, we all thank you for your service & have gratitude to all our fire dept. employees & volunteers. This emergency situation should have been handled immediately by BOD/CEO. Instead we are in court fighting law suits, concentration on a CMP plan where they do not recognize CCI as the developer, do not recognize laws of easements or care about the most important issues our emergency fire safety. Sure they purchased a NEW fire truck but if we do not have staff to fill the need of our community, what good is it? Amazing to me that it has not been on any BOD agenda. If our. Insurances go up we all know the reasons now. Please BOD members get this fixed quickly. Respectfully, Minn Daly
Mandy Hunter
07/10/2019 — 3:37 pm
The steady decline of HSV breaks my heart. It makes me sad every time I visit there. 😞
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 7:03 pm
Thank you for standing up and speaking out for our firefighters.
Tom Blakeman
07/10/2019 — 2:08 pm
Thank you all, especially Cheryl and Tom. This is excellent research and information and needs to be listened to.
This is what happens when you have a city manager with no experience managing a city, or anything else of substance for that matter.
The POA just lost a lawsuit which it should not have been in in the first place. Now it seems we may be running a higher than acceptable risk in the area of fire and life safety.
Just think how much a lawsuit defending liability for a catastrophe would cost if it was caused by short staffing or negligence on the part of our leadership.
Ronald Criswell. Retired Hot Springs Village Fire Fighter
07/10/2019 — 4:20 pm
The idea of not having off duty personnel come to fire training meetings is one thing some one should have ask about before they stopped it. The purpose of the training was to be able to have partners that could train together and know them well they each knew what they were going to do in an emergency scene. If paying overtime is hurting your budgets, the POA board might want to consider down sizing the personnel at the office building.
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 7:05 pm
Or even bonuses! She got a huge bonus. More than some firefighters ANNUAL pay.
Unknown
07/10/2019 — 4:58 pm
Everything in this article is absolutely accurate. Very well written and whatever else is to be said is a lie being covered by the POA
Jason Miller
07/10/2019 — 5:03 pm
Mrs. Dowden,
The decision to not man the Coronado Station was mine to make as the Chief of the Department. We do have two firefighters that are out due to medical situations and one off on PTO.
We have manned the station with an off duty firefighter. At no time has any of our members or residents been in any harm. Thank you for your concerns in the matter. We are here to protect and serve to the best level we can offer.
I invite all firefighters who have concerns over fire department decisions or unmet needs to meet with me, HR or the CEO.
HSVP C
07/10/2019 — 5:31 pm
Chief Miller,
Thank you for your response. Chief Miller, are you the person who authorizes the overtime pay? Was overtime pay stopped by your boss? If overtime pay was not authorized, then you had no choice but to make the decision to not man the station.
Do you feel your budget is adequate for the services you are required to provide?
We think the fire department has done a splendid job with what limited staffing resources you have. Staffing is woefully short. We do not imagine this is your fault. Most likely you would like to have a much larger staff.
Thank you for manning the station with an off duty firefighter. We understand no one was in harm’s way, but worst-case scenario this could have occurred.
We appreciate you and the firefighters very much. It is a difficult job. Thank you for your service.
We do not see how morale could be very high among your firefighters, but I doubt if they will complain to you or the CEO. We understand the reasons for this. It is why a lot of people are not comfortable posting publicly.
Again, you and your firefighters are very much appreciated.
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 6:42 pm
Very well thought out and TRUE. People please listen to the comments on the outside who know ALOT more than the POA admin about the fire dept.
Kirk Denger
07/10/2019 — 6:09 pm
Jason, yesterday afternoon there was a fire at a location that is supposed to be covered by the Coronado fire Station. One lady was severely burned. How can you say “At no time has any of our members or residents been in any harm”? We do not trust our CEO AT ALL, including her HR. Is the statement you made to Mrs. Dowden made under employment duress? The fire could be much worse or there could be multiple fires. Your decision under duress cannot be defended, please man the Coronado fire station as it should be, regardless of management interference. Your management is necessary, the CEO’s employment is not.
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 6:40 pm
Very well explained!
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 7:09 pm
So true. Get rid of the problem. Get rid of the leeches that are sucking the blood out of the Village.
Ronald Criswell
07/10/2019 — 8:00 pm
When I was with the Fire Department we the men ask for more man power before Coronado Station was built
But the POA board and the Chief at that time wanted a new building
So just like Desoto and Balboa stations they had one man per shift
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 5:16 pm
Ill just state what many property owners are thinking. Why is it, when we have four fire stations equipped with great fire fighting gear and we have 3 current fires – Balboa Marina and two fires on Salvatore’s Way and all 3 end up as total losses – has anyone besides me come to the conclusion- if your house catches fire it would be best to know your escape route – then set up a safe perch to watch everything you own go up in flames because even though you might live right down a short road from any one of four firehouses – the best thing you can do to protect yourself is to make your home insurance policy is paid up and current cause you will surely suffer a total loss living in HSV. I mean our crew is currently 0 for 3! Not good!!
Denise Paull
07/10/2019 — 5:59 pm
Mr. Miller-
With all due respect, did it not occur to you to approach the BOD and CEO and lobby for the resources we obviously and desperately need, as Cheryl Dowden’s research reveals, and of which I have to assume you are quite knowledgeable about being in your position.
Your comment “at no time have any of our members or residents been in any harm” seems very short sighted. That “no time” could change at ANY time. Are we to believe that minimum manpower is the new norm for HSV? Even when the 3 off duty fire fighters return? And that going forward how the June 11th fire was handled is the new norm as well?
We greatly appreciate you, your department, and all that you do. We’re here to support you any way we can. If you need help getting the resources you need please let residents know. We have demonstrated we can make a difference when we stand together. Nothing is more important than the safety of our lives.
Anonymous
07/17/2019 — 10:37 pm
No balls!
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 6:55 pm
The priorities of our CEO involves New UrbanTown Centers and pocket neighborhoods. The fire department and the police department are kicked to the curb to the detriment of Villagers’ safety and firefighters safety.
Anonymous
07/11/2019 — 12:12 am
The town center, pocket neighborhood, swimming pool, gate security & all the other money spent on blueprints etc. is certainly not showing signs of a responsible or experienced management. Safety of the village through the police, fire department & our gates should have been thought of. The hiring of enough people to do all the work the village requires & paying them a descent salary next. Then stop over paying the upper crust. Stop the good old boy crap such as putting people into jobs they are not qualified to do while using others that not only are qualified but have been doing the job for years. Should we experience another dry summer & have a raging fire that spreads how in the devil do you expect tp put it out especially should it be past the Cortez Golf Course!
Anonymous
07/10/2019 — 7:11 pm
Would love to meet Cheryl.
NittyGritty
07/11/2019 — 12:02 am
For lack of finding an updated source, I referred to the older website, which I suspected might present a rosier picture than being currently described. http://hsvpoa.org/services/public-safety/fire-department/ To my horror, my analysis of the dated numbers was not any rosier…
“There are 18 paid firefighters who work 24-hour shifts, in three shifts, each shift working ten days a month.” If “24-hour shifts, in three shifts” means each shift is 8 hours then “each shift working ten days a month” is only 80 hours a month per paid firefighter. (No wonder they may not be available on call…maybe they’re at their other job(s) making ends meet!) That would be 80 hours a month x 18 paid firefighters = 1440 hours a month paid. Meanwhile, there are 4 stations x 24 hours operation x 30-1/2 days a month = 2928 hours a month if each station just has one paid firefighter on duty. So It would seem that to have at least one paid firefighter on duty at all times at each station, we need to pay for more than twice as many hours as we do.
HSVP C
07/11/2019 — 7:04 am
The firefighters shift is a 24 hour shift. They go to the station at 7 a.m. and stay until 7 a.m. the next morning.
Karen Daigle Lundberg
07/11/2019 — 4:27 pm
Chief Miller, I think you have misunderstood completely the point of this article. I will tell you that you will be hard pressed to find a larger supporter of our first responders than my husband and I. When we lived in Houston, he and I volunteered and worked at fundraisers and camps in the heat of the summer and the cold of the winter. We constantly make donations. We have not found a way here in the Village yet to volunteer for our first responders, but I can tell you that during National Police Week, my husband and I delivered a large cake and two huge trays of cookies to the police department, and it was the only thing they received that whole week. I am only telling you this so you understand how very much we are on your side. We appreciate your service to us, and we would never undermine you, and I don’t think a soul in this Village would either. We do NOT blame you or our firefighters for the conditions you work under, and we feel that you are all being unfairly treated and very underpaid.
Now, while it has been suggested that we write the Board of Directors, which is a great idea, I, myself, chose to call the State of Arkansas Fire Marshall this morning. I spoke to an inspector there, and he was going to relay the information to the Major. I made it quite clear to Dennis Free, the inspector I spoke to, that we did not blame any of our firefighters or you for any of this. We have a right to be concerned, and that is how I chose to handle it. I made sure that Mr. Free understood that we were very pleased with everyone in both our fire and police department, but we felt that all of you were overworked, underpaid, and our lives were not being safely taken care of due to the limitations put on our firefighters and police. Mr. Free asked for Ms. Nalley’s phone number, which I gave him, but I also warned him that if she spoke to the Major in her usual method of answering questions, she would not be forthcoming with the real situation. I offered my name and phone number and told him that I would be happy to put him in touch with someone else who he could get the facts straight from.
Again, we appreciate all of our first responders, and we feel like this type of situation needs to be defended, because it is our job as Villagers to make sure not just us, but our employees are treated fairly, and it is quite apparent that you all are not, just as we are not.
Thank you all for your service.
Marsha Dickson
07/11/2019 — 4:57 pm
The reason we have issues wrt our fire fighting department is because we have a CEO that is failing at her job. We also have a BOD majority with no spine to carry out the wishes of property owners. That being – removing Lesley Nalley from her job.
Lesley Nalley must go!
She’s the CEO. The buck stops at her desk. Shes not doing her job She’s responsible for the understaffing of our firefighters.
Lesley Nalley must go!
Removing Lesley Nalley will go a long way in healing our Community.
Anonymous
07/11/2019 — 6:16 pm
Agreed! Lesley Nalley must go!
Anonymous
07/12/2019 — 5:38 pm
Look at what the CEO. CFO. COO. Make as salary every year. More than the governor of Arkansas each one of them